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um

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hmm

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it's unraveling the secrets and this is

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another

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episode and i am typically bettly

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mr ufo and on the other side of the

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hudson

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we have carla anderson

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carla how are you this evening i'm good

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how you doing

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well you know if anything can go wrong

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it will go wrong

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yeah we're getting a rough start we're

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here here

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and a half an hour short but yeah work

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with your folks and we're gonna make up

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for it

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with some of the most lively discussions

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on the paranormal and ufo

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because we've got some great guests and

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we've also got a great producer in

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edinger down here i'm usually saying i'm

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used to saying angel down there in

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florida but no

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uh up there or sideways or somewhere in

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indiana

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you'll have to you have to back off from

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your computer a little bit because i can

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hear everybody echoing through your uh

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speakers there

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ever since we have this men in black

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the truth comes out

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you can't mention the men in black

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oh i just did that's right and that

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voice there

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that's that's alan greenfield hi alan hi

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no no tim beckley i'm just like this

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yes yes tim well i don't know

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ellen yes what are you doing

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and looking at the computer like it's

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going to do something instead of just

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talking about tonight alan

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uh we're going to talk about uh the what

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do you want to talk about

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what i want to talk about is why we have

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had this

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false dichotomy where ufos are concerned

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for the last

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60 years since way before i even got

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into it and i got into it 1960

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this this notion that either we're

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dealing with misidentification of

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natural objects or hoaxes

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or they've got to be spaceships from

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another planet it was like that was

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out there bingo right after the

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the term flying saucer was coined in

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1947

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and i don't think either of those things

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is the case i mean there are a lot of

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misidentified cases but we haven't

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seen ufos and

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ufo beings and abductions anywhere but

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on the earth

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so the question becomes why would that

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be the automatic

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first assumption about these things

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particularly if you get into as

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a few writers akiel and jacques villa

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and myself have gotten into cases from

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the

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flying saucer was

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uh coined around the ken arnold case

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june 24 1947 so

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they go back a long long way that

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eliminates the secret weapon idea

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it makes it a part of the history of the

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earth

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it makes it a part of our history and

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the question becomes

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why this assumption that they come from

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elsewhere they're not seen elsewhere

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they're not seen to come from elsewhere

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there is a general idea and i think it's

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probably true that there is life

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elsewhere in the universe but the

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distances are tremendous

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i think the reason that ufology has

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really gotten nowhere is first of all it

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hasn't applied a lot of the

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scientific principles that are involved

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in paranormal research

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at least in classical paranormal

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research we're not talking about the

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three plumbers on tv chasing ghosts

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that's

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entertaining if you like that sort of

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thing but not

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real useful from a scientific point of

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view so

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i think we need to shift the focus

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and not have this dichotomy of either

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or but rather say there are a whole

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range of possibilities

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and probably the direction that i have

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gone

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in most in the last 15

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20 years with increasing

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likelihood is that we are dealing with

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uh things that have to do with quantum

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mechanics and quantum reality and uh

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probably the multiple um

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uh world's uh uh interpretation of

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quantum theory which is that we are

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basically we coincide with many other

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realities that are just

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uh distances are really a useless

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measure but just say hairs

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distanced from us and once in a while

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they interpenetrate our reality

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and we're not really evolved to

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if you believe in that sort of thing

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eat avoid getting eaten and reproduce

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and so we don't have the sensory system

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to

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really see these things or or resolve

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them in any kind of realistic way so we

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resolve them according to our cultural

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background

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and circumstances and whatever but

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they're there all the time

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they're here right next to me right now

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or within me or outside of me and with

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you and with

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all the people that might be listening

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to us

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but once in a while they sort of break

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through and you get either

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you get you get their their music

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you get you get strange noises you

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see a ghost you see a ufo you you feel

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like you've been abducted

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maybe you have momentarily transported

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because

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time may be entirely different a second

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in a

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an alternate reality might seem like

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hours days weeks

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centuries even so um i

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i think that direction would be a lot

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more productive and i've been

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touting that for a long time but

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it gets very little play i even showed

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doesn't prove anything about their

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nature but i even showed a

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a way to predict in certain instances

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when a major ufo event is going to occur

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in one of my books and i've been waiting

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for somebody

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to duplicate the work that i did

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so that they could see you know prove it

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or disprove it

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and the interesting thing is that

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particular

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volume and its sequel have reached

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oh 50 60 000 people

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over the years and

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i have yet to hear i hear people you

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know i hear from people who want to know

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about it

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who who say a great book blah blah blah

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also people you crazy nut why don't you

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shut up or

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you know you're obviously one of them or

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whatever they

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care to say but nobody who has

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taken the trouble to duplicate the um

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the system that that i laid out

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and that seems very strange to me it's

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like a resistance to resolving this

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maybe we love a mystery so much that we

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want to keep it mysterious i really

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actually want to even if it turns out to

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be very different from the direction of

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my own thinking

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i really would like to see it resolved

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but as long as people are chasing nuts

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and bolts spacecraft

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i really think they're they're chasing a

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that's what i want to talk about

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well apparently i'm alone here alone no

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you're not alone i think that's a very i

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think that's a very no no you're you're

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definitely

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never alone

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alan speaking as a bishop putting on my

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other hat

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oh no no i have to take off my

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headphones to put on my miter

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uh we're never alone but that has

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nothing to do with what we're talking

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about

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that's right well okay for anybody

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interested the other uh the other voices

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you heard chiming in there

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is uh rick hilberg rick how are you

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doing tonight i'm not

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doing too bad at all how are you fellows

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dude yeah we're doing all right

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let's see carla are you still with us

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oh my gosh i've been talking this whole

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time

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how did you everybody saying rick

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hilbeck so what do you think about

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because since we're unraveling the

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secrets what do you think about what

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alan said

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well i think a lot of what he said is

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absolutely true i think there's been too

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much of an emphasis

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placed on you know chasing lights in the

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sky

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and under the assumption as he he

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brought up that we're dealing with some

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sort of extraterrestrial spaceships

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uh i think that's pretty well you know

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permeated the field since the very

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beginning or

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really right after the beginning i think

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in the early days of ufos right after

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the arnold siting at 47

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uh most of the people are thinking you

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know well these are probably secret

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weapons either from the united states or

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from you know russia

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and that was the assumption for a while

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and of course you had the

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all the cold war tensions and the

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explosion of uh

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all the very you know science fiction uh

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movies that that hit the the scene such

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as the day the earth stood still

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uh the thing from another world etc etc

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and those talked about you know

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visitation uh by extraterrestrials and i

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think that's that that's when this

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whole thing became popular um

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what alan brought up of course is

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he he called it at one time the

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alternate reality theory which is

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basically you know

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quantum physics is something that i

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really don't even understand

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even talking to the one of the

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godfathers

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of ufology the late uh dr j allen

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heineck

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he even admitted to to me and several

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other people

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that he had barely an inkling of

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of quantum theory it was all greek to

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him literally

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so uh we are dealing with some sort of

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tremendous mystery

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and um we are obviously going

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about investigating it in the wrong way

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maybe if we

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we open the parameters of our

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investigation a weed bits

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to include the evidence that's been

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excluded

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uh uh all these many years maybe we

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will finally come to some answers

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because there's just certain things that

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are unacceptable

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um any sort of paranormal aspect to a

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sighting uh in the past anyway has been

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you know that's it's been the

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the kiss of death the investigators do

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not want to hear about anything like

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that they don't want to hear about any

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sort of unusual occurrences of beings

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fading in and out walking through walls

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etc etc

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and it's only been and since the

286
00:12:00,710 --> 00:11:59,920
the explosion of the alleged abductions

287
00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:00,720
which

288
00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:02,720
took over the field literally back in

289
00:12:08,829 --> 00:12:05,440
the late 1970s and early 80s when

290
00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:08,839
some of these paranormal-like

291
00:12:12,629 --> 00:12:10,560
experiences become

292
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:12,639
become accepted by certain researchers i

293
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:15,600
think there's 10 back on the line now

294
00:12:19,990 --> 00:12:17,920
and you know am i back on the line i

295
00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:20,000
wonder

296
00:12:26,949 --> 00:12:23,680
yes but rick please continue this is

297
00:12:30,949 --> 00:12:29,750
well when people agree with me i find it

298
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:30,959
fascinating

299
00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:33,200
and well of course and me too you know

300
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:35,279
but but what you said before too

301
00:12:39,030 --> 00:12:37,680
also it we we have been dealing with

302
00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:39,040
basically the same

303
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:42,560
phenomena going or phenomenon or maybe

304
00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:44,399
phenomena plural

305
00:12:47,829 --> 00:12:46,240
going throughout history if you if you

306
00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:47,839
look at some of the

307
00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:51,040
the abduction cases the small creatures

308
00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:52,079
etc you go back

309
00:12:56,629 --> 00:12:55,040
a few years into the past instead of

310
00:12:58,069 --> 00:12:56,639
grey aliens we're talking about little

311
00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:58,079
dwarves that would come out of these

312
00:13:00,550 --> 00:12:59,040
ufos

313
00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:00,560
if you go back further and further back

314
00:13:04,829 --> 00:13:02,720
into history we go back to the airship

315
00:13:07,590 --> 00:13:04,839
cases of 1896

316
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:07,600
1897 um you'll get you know

317
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,560
a few uh instances of diminutive

318
00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:12,240
creatures but a lot of times this you

319
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:12,720
know

320
00:13:16,389 --> 00:13:14,480
normal looking humans if you go further

321
00:13:19,829 --> 00:13:16,399
back then you get into fairy lore

322
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:19,839
and you find a certain you know uh

323
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:22,639
similarity between the actions of the

324
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:26,000
the the we folk and the you folk uh

325
00:13:29,829 --> 00:13:28,240
so uh we're really dealing with some

326
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:29,839
sort of cultural phenomena that's been

327
00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:30,560
going on for

328
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:33,279
for eons and i think the investigators

329
00:13:38,710 --> 00:13:35,279
these days and some of the major ufo

330
00:13:43,189 --> 00:13:38,720
organizations are are focusing too much

331
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:43,199
on uh just looking at certain aspects of

332
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:44,079
these cases

333
00:13:48,150 --> 00:13:46,320
and basically all that they're doing now

334
00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:48,160
is just chronicling cases

335
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:50,160
uh getting them on file cards or on

336
00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:53,040
computer programs or whatever

337
00:13:56,389 --> 00:13:54,720
they're looking for patterns that

338
00:13:58,389 --> 00:13:56,399
probably don't exist

339
00:13:59,670 --> 00:13:58,399
because we are dealing with things that

340
00:14:02,870 --> 00:13:59,680
you would need

341
00:14:06,069 --> 00:14:02,880
even to

342
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:06,079
to remotely find any kind of pattern

343
00:14:15,269 --> 00:14:09,760
in it hey hey everybody guess who's back

344
00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:15,279
hey the host has been shut out

345
00:14:19,269 --> 00:14:17,760
we're so busy over here too i i i know

346
00:14:20,629 --> 00:14:19,279
i've been it's very strange i've been

347
00:14:22,949 --> 00:14:20,639
hearing the conversation

348
00:14:24,629 --> 00:14:22,959
yes but uh i have not been able to get

349
00:14:27,670 --> 00:14:24,639
back on but now i have

350
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:27,680
and i'm pulling in the rains and you

351
00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:28,560
know

352
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:30,880
why because we're missing we're missing

353
00:14:33,269 --> 00:14:32,320
part of the purpose here i don't think

354
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:33,279
we've talked about

355
00:14:36,550 --> 00:14:35,120
really why we're meeting here tonight

356
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:36,560
and why is it that we're meeting here

357
00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:37,519
tonight because

358
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:40,720
it is the 51st anniversary of the

359
00:14:46,069 --> 00:14:41,760
formation

360
00:14:52,389 --> 00:14:46,079
of a group that we were all involved in

361
00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:55,110
i don't know what you're talking about

362
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:56,160
well

363
00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:02,150
hey let's we'll get back to all of this

364
00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:05,040
but let's go back to 1964.

365
00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:08,160
and and let's start in the beginning

366
00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:12,480
uh april 24th 1965

367
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:14,560
a police officer by the name of lonnie

368
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:15,680
zamora

369
00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:17,760
was driving through the small town of

370
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:20,000
sakura new mexico

371
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:24,959
uh he was chasing a speeding automobile

372
00:15:29,350 --> 00:15:27,839
and uh all of a sudden he heard a loud

373
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:29,360
explosion that shook

374
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:33,199
the interior of his uh patrol car

375
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:36,000
uh he thought it was a dynamite shack on

376
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:37,120
the edge of town

377
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:40,480
that had exploded uh he uh

378
00:15:43,509 --> 00:15:42,320
gave up his chase of the speeding

379
00:15:47,189 --> 00:15:43,519
automobile

380
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:47,199
and went to check on the um

381
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:49,199
where the explosion was coming from on

382
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:50,639
the way to this uh

383
00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:54,000
area he saw uh in a

384
00:15:59,990 --> 00:15:57,759
slight decline uh an object oval-shaped

385
00:16:00,949 --> 00:16:00,000
object kind of uh egg-shaped i

386
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:00,959
understand

387
00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:04,160
resting on tripod uh landing gear

388
00:16:08,710 --> 00:16:07,279
with two humanoid beings uh

389
00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:08,720
in in front of it there were some

390
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:11,360
strange symbols on the craft

391
00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:13,600
and i asked ted phillips who was a guest

392
00:16:16,550 --> 00:16:14,480
on the show

393
00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:16,560
uh oh about a month or so ago because he

394
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:18,160
was there right on the scene within a

395
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:18,959
couple of days

396
00:16:22,310 --> 00:16:21,600
how what was the dimension of the object

397
00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:22,320
and he said

398
00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:25,920
it was about 18 feet

399
00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:28,240
in height and i said well how about the

400
00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:30,320
little men how tall would they have been

401
00:16:34,629 --> 00:16:32,880
and he said probably in the neighborhood

402
00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:34,639
of about four or four and a half

403
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:37,920
feet now this story made

404
00:16:41,509 --> 00:16:39,920
uh the news coverage all over the

405
00:16:42,550 --> 00:16:41,519
country was picked up by the wire

406
00:16:45,269 --> 00:16:42,560
service

407
00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:45,279
and uh it's still talked about to this

408
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:46,320
day

409
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:49,600
it's still classified by the air force

410
00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:52,720
as being unidentified and obviously it's

411
00:16:55,749 --> 00:16:53,040
had

412
00:16:56,629 --> 00:16:55,759
an impact on a lot of people who still

413
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:56,639
remember it

414
00:16:59,829 --> 00:16:59,279
now at the same time that lonnie zamora

415
00:17:01,749 --> 00:16:59,839
was

416
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:01,759
observing this strange craft in the new

417
00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:03,680
mexico desert

418
00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:07,760
in cleveland ohio a group of teenagers

419
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:11,120
were getting together to form their own

420
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:14,240
organization rick you were one of the

421
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:16,079
the founding members and are still a

422
00:17:19,189 --> 00:17:17,360
permanent

423
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:19,199
member of the organizing committee which

424
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:20,720
i believe i still am too

425
00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:22,559
i came a year later i didn't show up to

426
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:26,240
the first meeting i was there in 1965.

427
00:17:30,830 --> 00:17:29,200
yes you were there in 65 that's correct

428
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:30,840
what prompted you

429
00:17:36,630 --> 00:17:33,919
to start this organization which

430
00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:36,640
has had its ups and downs over the years

431
00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:37,600
uh it's been

432
00:17:44,390 --> 00:17:40,720
inactive for a few years uh now

433
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:44,400
but it's springing back to life uh

434
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:46,240
this summer in cleveland where you're

435
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:47,600
going to be holding your first

436
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:50,640
meeting in the in many years uh

437
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:52,000
and what's the date on that that's

438
00:17:55,029 --> 00:17:54,160
coming up rick it's going to be coming

439
00:18:01,750 --> 00:17:55,039
up the weekend

440
00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:01,760
of friday the 19th 20th and 21st of june

441
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:04,960
but we want to know what made you

442
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:06,559
start this organization and what were

443
00:18:10,710 --> 00:18:09,120
you doing before you started it

444
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:10,720
well that's that's the key to the whole

445
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:12,400
thing tim because

446
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,320
as you were and as alan greenfield was

447
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:18,480
i was also one of those teenage

448
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:19,840
ufologists

449
00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:23,280
ufo fans and alan and i

450
00:18:26,470 --> 00:18:25,520
happened to be in an organization

451
00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:26,480
together

452
00:18:31,430 --> 00:18:29,600
and we at the time we were kind of

453
00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:31,440
tape spawning back and forth to each

454
00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:33,360
other the days before the internet

455
00:18:37,029 --> 00:18:34,960
and of course we had telephones back

456
00:18:38,549 --> 00:18:37,039
then we may have had gas radios and

457
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:38,559
refrigerators but we had

458
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:41,120
we did have a tape recorder but anyway

459
00:18:44,630 --> 00:18:42,880
uh we would tapes bond

460
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:44,640
between each other back and forth and

461
00:18:49,510 --> 00:18:46,799
send one tape and answer it but you know

462
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:49,520
so on and so forth and uh allen brought

463
00:18:53,669 --> 00:18:50,880
up a point i think uh

464
00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:53,679
probably sometime in the summer of 1963

465
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:54,720
saying you know

466
00:18:59,350 --> 00:18:56,720
they're they're there are all sorts of

467
00:19:02,070 --> 00:18:59,360
uh of conventions being held for

468
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:02,080
the contactees those people who claimed

469
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:03,760
you know contact with their space

470
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:05,760
brothers and and that and getting all

471
00:19:09,909 --> 00:19:07,120
sorts of philosophical

472
00:19:11,909 --> 00:19:09,919
wisdom from them etc etc like giant rock

473
00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:11,919
california out in the uh the desert in

474
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:13,520
their 29 palms

475
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:16,799
and i think gabriel green had uh held a

476
00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:20,320
a large contact defest in los

477
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:23,200
vegas that even featured the likes of

478
00:19:27,110 --> 00:19:23,760
chief

479
00:19:28,470 --> 00:19:27,120
standing beau who's uh had i don't know

480
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:28,480
hundreds of contacts with

481
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:30,960
extraterrestrials and some of the flying

482
00:19:34,950 --> 00:19:31,600
saucers

483
00:19:37,029 --> 00:19:34,960
were shaped like bows okay

484
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:37,039
yeah he was he was a little known

485
00:19:40,870 --> 00:19:38,080
contactee but

486
00:19:41,190 --> 00:19:40,880
quite a quite colorful one uh actually

487
00:19:44,310 --> 00:19:41,200
so

488
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:44,320
yeah you're right the contactee um

489
00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:46,880
the contact piece kind of controlled the

490
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:47,840
ufo

491
00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:51,280
convention uh scene until you guys came

492
00:19:54,870 --> 00:19:52,640
along

493
00:19:56,150 --> 00:19:54,880
that's right that's right and and uh

494
00:19:58,950 --> 00:19:56,160
alan feld and i

495
00:19:59,669 --> 00:19:58,960
thought that also that it was time that

496
00:20:02,390 --> 00:19:59,679
that uh

497
00:20:03,909 --> 00:20:02,400
the the more serious side uh we kind of

498
00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:03,919
quote and quote the serious side of

499
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:04,880
mythology

500
00:20:09,990 --> 00:20:07,600
had a chance to uh to have their own

501
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:10,000
convention and that's basically why we

502
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:12,240
we tried to form the first one to get

503
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:13,280
various people

504
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:15,360
representing other organizations to get

505
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:17,280
together and see if we could all work

506
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:17,840
together

507
00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:21,200
towards some common uh good namely being

508
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:23,840
to try to solve the ufo mystery

509
00:20:27,750 --> 00:20:26,080
and we were joined in our quest by

510
00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:27,760
another member of that organization the

511
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:30,000
lake dale reddick and dale just passed

512
00:20:33,830 --> 00:20:30,559
away this

513
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:33,840
uh i believe this past september he was

514
00:21:05,750 --> 00:20:34,320
a

515
00:21:07,990 --> 00:21:05,760
don't we get together so

516
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:08,000
that that's that's why we're doing it

517
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:08,799
and well

518
00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:12,000
also to the rick i think we should

519
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:15,280
kind of mention and bring in here that

520
00:21:18,549 --> 00:21:18,000
cleveland was at that point or around

521
00:21:21,669 --> 00:21:18,559
that time

522
00:21:24,230 --> 00:21:21,679
maybe starting even earlier the hub of

523
00:21:25,909 --> 00:21:24,240
ufo activity i don't know where it would

524
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:25,919
be necessarily today

525
00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:29,280
but cleveland was humming it had a buzz

526
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:32,080
as far as ufo went you had the cleveland

527
00:21:36,070 --> 00:21:32,960
you fell

528
00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:36,080
ufology round table you had earl nep you

529
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:36,960
had a weekly

530
00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:39,760
uh radio show i know i used to pick it

531
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:40,640
up on my

532
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:43,200
ham uh radio on a regular ben but we had

533
00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:45,360
a big you know antenna on the roof

534
00:21:49,029 --> 00:21:47,039
was it every tuesday night or something

535
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:49,039
you know and uh

536
00:21:52,149 --> 00:21:51,200
cleveland was the hub of this i mean you

537
00:21:55,430 --> 00:21:52,159
guys had

538
00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:55,440
structure and organization and there was

539
00:22:01,350 --> 00:21:58,480
almanac and ron pelger was it

540
00:22:02,230 --> 00:22:01,360
yes yes ron pilger al manik al manik

541
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:02,240
actually was

542
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:03,760
the chairman of cleveland ufology

543
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:05,840
project at the time that was the major

544
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:07,280
organization here in cleveland there was

545
00:22:10,630 --> 00:22:07,840
even a

546
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:10,640
cleveland ufo society plus another a few

547
00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:12,000
other little independent groups

548
00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:14,720
and the group in akron too yeah right

549
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:16,400
the flying saucer investigating

550
00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:17,760
committee and then there was another one

551
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:19,280
that was uh of goodyear

552
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:21,840
the goodyear tire plant employees had

553
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:22,559
their own

554
00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:25,120
ufo society for a while so yes it was

555
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:27,360
indeed a hotbed and we did have that

556
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:30,640
uh uh weekly radio show was a ufo

557
00:22:35,590 --> 00:22:34,000
roundtable and it was on kyw radio

558
00:22:37,750 --> 00:22:35,600
that's what we're doing tonight this is

559
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:37,760
why this is why i put this show together

560
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:38,159
see

561
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:42,000
this is the round table of the air

562
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:45,600
you can't see it okay all right so

563
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:48,320
that it was it was the hub of ufo

564
00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:48,960
activity

565
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:51,840
now what made it so was there a lot of

566
00:22:58,390 --> 00:22:54,799
ufo activity were there sightings of

567
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:58,400
flying saucers well there were

568
00:23:02,470 --> 00:23:00,559
flying saucers ufos whatever you want to

569
00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:02,480
call them were just sighted everywhere i

570
00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:05,039
i really don't know why cleveland

571
00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:08,559
was the hotbed uh i i have absolutely no

572
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:09,440
idea but it

573
00:23:12,870 --> 00:23:11,919
indeed was and and had been for a number

574
00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:12,880
of years

575
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:14,640
but one thing you you brought up and

576
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:16,000
this is kind of you know

577
00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:18,480
uh getting into the nitty-gritty of the

578
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:20,320
history of the whole thing is

579
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:24,320
as the the socorro case

580
00:23:28,390 --> 00:23:27,200
uh the the lonnie zamora case on april

581
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:28,400
24th was

582
00:23:33,590 --> 00:23:32,159
was not the not an isolated incident

583
00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:33,600
there were other things that were going

584
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:34,159
on

585
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:38,000
thursday

586
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:41,120
the 23rd two people saw an

587
00:23:47,029 --> 00:23:44,640
egg-shaped uh object over albuquerque

588
00:23:49,029 --> 00:23:47,039
at about between 3 30 and 4 o'clock in

589
00:23:51,990 --> 00:23:49,039
the afternoon

590
00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:52,000
and it was quite similar in retrospect

591
00:23:55,269 --> 00:23:52,400
to what

592
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:55,279
zamora saw and again you know just about

593
00:24:00,070 --> 00:23:56,799
the same time

594
00:24:01,990 --> 00:24:00,080
um back east in newark valley new york

595
00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:02,000
there was a fellow farmer named

596
00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:04,960
by the name of gary wilcox who had a

597
00:24:09,269 --> 00:24:06,240
contact with two

598
00:24:10,549 --> 00:24:09,279
with uh he was a contact he had contact

599
00:24:12,549 --> 00:24:10,559
with two beings

600
00:24:14,230 --> 00:24:12,559
from an egg-shaped object that landed in

601
00:24:16,830 --> 00:24:14,240
his field and he had a

602
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:16,840
discussion they asked to leave him they

603
00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:18,960
asked him to leave them

604
00:24:28,870 --> 00:24:25,830
when i tell people that i know for a

605
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:28,880
fact that ufos are full of bs

606
00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:31,840
[\h__\h] rats that's the case that

607
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:34,240
proves it right there

608
00:24:43,110 --> 00:24:40,710
and these two beings were were the

609
00:24:44,549 --> 00:24:43,120
classic men from mars because they

610
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:44,559
claimed that they were from the planet

611
00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:45,440
mars

612
00:24:48,630 --> 00:24:46,960
and they were interested in earthly

613
00:24:50,149 --> 00:24:48,640
farming techniques because things were

614
00:24:53,669 --> 00:24:50,159
different on mars

615
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:53,679
and they they were trying to grow food

616
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:56,320
and so they were quite curious about the

617
00:25:02,710 --> 00:24:56,960
earth

618
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:02,720
and also there was keksburg around that

619
00:25:07,830 --> 00:25:03,760
time that was uh

620
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:07,840
december of 1965. no yeah in 65 you had

621
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:09,120
the kecksburg case

622
00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:29,669
was it the following year uh brooksville

623
00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:31,360
florida

624
00:25:38,190 --> 00:25:34,480
yeah uh brooksville was an ongoing

625
00:25:39,669 --> 00:25:38,200
series of of events all the way from the

626
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:39,679
mid-1960s

627
00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:43,039
uh well it may still be going on but i

628
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:46,240
continued to to go there and investigate

629
00:25:49,269 --> 00:25:48,400
uh with the late joan reitner and other

630
00:25:52,149 --> 00:25:49,279
people

631
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:52,159
all the way up into the 1970s and it was

632
00:25:55,830 --> 00:25:52,640
still

633
00:25:59,110 --> 00:25:55,840
actively going on it centered on a guy

634
00:26:02,149 --> 00:25:59,120
named john reeves who was a

635
00:26:02,789 --> 00:26:02,159
not a classical contactee somewhere

636
00:26:06,230 --> 00:26:02,799
between

637
00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:06,240
an abductee as their more currently

638
00:26:11,029 --> 00:26:08,960
defined and your classical contactee

639
00:26:12,950 --> 00:26:11,039
with the big message story only he

640
00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:12,960
didn't have a big message he just had

641
00:26:17,430 --> 00:26:14,480
the experience of

642
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:17,440
being abducted and then re-abducted and

643
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:19,039
reabducted over and over

644
00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:22,320
to the point that you would think

645
00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:24,080
well why does he have a sign out in

646
00:26:27,909 --> 00:26:25,840
front of his shack that says flying

647
00:26:30,950 --> 00:26:27,919
saucer landing area there's a

648
00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:30,960
great photo of my father showing his

649
00:26:34,549 --> 00:26:32,400
contempt for the whole thing

650
00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:34,559
playing off front of the flying saucer

651
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:35,840
landing area sign

652
00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:39,440
but in any case as i got more deeply

653
00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:40,640
into it

654
00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:44,320
it isn't just about this guy all around

655
00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:46,640
that area of florida on the west coast

656
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:48,480
of florida which was then

657
00:26:53,669 --> 00:26:51,840
much more sparsely inhabited than it is

658
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:53,679
today

659
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:57,520
florida was an east coast uh

660
00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:59,520
tourist destination but the florida west

661
00:27:04,549 --> 00:27:01,120
coast was

662
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:04,559
other than st petersburg a

663
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:07,760
a relatively untamed territory it's

664
00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:10,240
been developed since then but we're

665
00:27:14,470 --> 00:27:11,120
talking about

666
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:14,480
in the late 1960s no interstate there

667
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:17,360
whatever and sinkholes on what roads

668
00:27:22,389 --> 00:27:19,120
there were that just occurred

669
00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:22,399
abruptly i remember one time i

670
00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:24,880
was riding towards brooksville which is

671
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:25,919
where

672
00:27:35,510 --> 00:27:32,559
a truck dropped into a

673
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:35,520
hole in the ground and i shouldn't laugh

674
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:35,840
because

675
00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:37,760
i think the driver was killed but it was

676
00:27:43,510 --> 00:27:40,480
just you know the bottom dropped out

677
00:27:46,710 --> 00:27:43,520
however there are many

678
00:27:51,029 --> 00:27:46,720
uh close encounters of the

679
00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:51,039
second kind close but not

680
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:54,080
not lights in the sky but not uh

681
00:28:02,630 --> 00:27:57,840
encounters with quote alien beings

682
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:02,640
that is non-human perceived entities

683
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:05,600
all around that same area by people who

684
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:06,240
had

685
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:09,760
them

686
00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:17,039
there were insects that we collected

687
00:28:20,789 --> 00:28:17,440
that

688
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:20,799
uh seem to be uh

689
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:24,480
of a variety that no one could identify

690
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:27,679
as of any variety that that that was

691
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:28,640
then known to

692
00:28:33,430 --> 00:28:30,640
what entomologists is that the correct

693
00:28:40,149 --> 00:28:36,870
and it was a great

694
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:40,159
complex of cases centered on port richey

695
00:28:44,549 --> 00:28:42,000
newport richie and brooksville

696
00:28:45,990 --> 00:28:44,559
and was ongoing for years at the time i

697
00:28:48,389 --> 00:28:46,000
think in the

698
00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:48,399
uh rick mentioned the alternate horizons

699
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:49,679
newsletter i said

700
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:51,200
one thing you could say about this is

701
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:53,039
that it's a beach head

702
00:28:58,230 --> 00:28:56,159
and of course i took this information to

703
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:58,240
the we then called it the congress of

704
00:29:02,230 --> 00:29:00,480
scientific ufologists later the national

705
00:29:05,590 --> 00:29:02,240
ufo conference

706
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:09,029
the one of the stuffy ufo organizations

707
00:29:11,669 --> 00:29:09,520
that

708
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:11,679
in those days didn't hold conventions

709
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:12,960
because that was not

710
00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:16,080
stuffy enough for them apro also

711
00:29:20,630 --> 00:29:18,080
investigated this case and interestingly

712
00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:20,640
enough even though they tended to be

713
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:24,640
violently anti-contact-e

714
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:26,320
basically it was two people and their

715
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:28,720
friends but uh um

716
00:29:35,669 --> 00:29:32,320
uh in arizona but um

717
00:29:38,230 --> 00:29:35,679
uh they gave it their stamp of approval

718
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:38,240
as well so you know that i mean it's not

719
00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:40,320
like their word counts for more than me

720
00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:44,320
their their background in this was

721
00:29:47,909 --> 00:29:47,120
not in any way superior to mine

722
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:47,919
nevertheless

723
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:50,880
they had more uh establishment

724
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:52,960
credentials if you will and i found that

725
00:29:58,710 --> 00:29:55,440
interesting that unexpectedly

726
00:29:59,669 --> 00:29:58,720
they also gave uh uh reeves this stamp

727
00:30:02,710 --> 00:29:59,679
of approval

728
00:30:04,149 --> 00:30:02,720
there are other cases well also you know

729
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:04,159
what was very interesting though about

730
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:05,440
the reeves case

731
00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:07,600
didn't he profess to have some sort of

732
00:30:11,669 --> 00:30:09,840
physical evidence he was given a scroll

733
00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:11,679
with some writing on it by a robot that

734
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:13,440
he met in the bushes or the swamp or

735
00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:14,399
something

736
00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:17,039
no it's not a swamp it's it's it's just

737
00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:18,000
you're chipping

738
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:21,760
the whole area is uh swampy scrub land

739
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:22,000
it

740
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:25,760
hard to describe he had

741
00:30:32,789 --> 00:30:29,679
he did make a plaster cast of footprints

742
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:32,799
uh he had this scroll which by the way

743
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:36,000
just like in the lonnie zamora case

744
00:30:40,230 --> 00:30:39,120
for someone who tries to look at all of

745
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:40,240
these different

746
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:43,760
whatsits as part of us a spectrum

747
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:46,799
that is things that occur in paranormal

748
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:47,679
research

749
00:30:55,190 --> 00:30:51,760
uh in cryptozoology in ufology

750
00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:55,200
and even in occultism they seem to be

751
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:58,240
sort of the same thing viewed through

752
00:31:01,909 --> 00:31:00,480
uh different lenses different cultural

753
00:31:05,590 --> 00:31:01,919
lenses different interests

754
00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:05,600
whatever but uh the the insignia

755
00:31:11,669 --> 00:31:09,519
on the side that uh zamora before he

756
00:31:13,029 --> 00:31:11,679
changed his story probably under a lot

757
00:31:16,149 --> 00:31:13,039
of pressure being

758
00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:16,159
a local cop and uh and

759
00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:19,679
getting a lot of flack it was a

760
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:22,799
magical sigil and the

761
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:26,399
the document um that

762
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:29,919
that reeves had probably i have a photo

763
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:32,720
copy of that somewhere in digitized form

764
00:31:36,789 --> 00:31:33,760
but

765
00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:36,799
it's all magical sigils established

766
00:31:41,110 --> 00:31:38,159
magical sigils

767
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:41,120
and believe me this guy has never read a

768
00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:42,159
medieval

769
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:46,720
magical tractate in his life he was

770
00:31:50,389 --> 00:31:49,200
i wouldn't say an ignorant person but a

771
00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:50,399
simple person

772
00:31:59,509 --> 00:31:54,960
and then the notion that he was uh

773
00:32:02,389 --> 00:31:59,519
able to to uh he had carpentry skills

774
00:32:04,630 --> 00:32:02,399
so he could have done the the footprints

775
00:32:07,669 --> 00:32:04,640
he later built a flying saucer and it

776
00:32:10,710 --> 00:32:07,679
literally got picked up by a tornado

777
00:32:12,070 --> 00:32:10,720
and flown away i'm not i don't make

778
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:12,080
these things up folks

779
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:14,480
this really happened then he built

780
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,760
himself a tomb

781
00:32:19,990 --> 00:32:18,000
and advertised for a wife to be buried

782
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:20,000
with him yeah i mean

783
00:32:24,470 --> 00:32:22,960
it's a nutty sort of guy but he was also

784
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:24,480
backed by the fact that

785
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:28,559
these things had these magical sigils

786
00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:29,360
there were the

787
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:33,039
surrounding him

788
00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:36,000
that post-date not pre-date as far as i

789
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:37,200
was able to assess

790
00:32:41,269 --> 00:32:39,840
post-state his experience it was like

791
00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:41,279
that was the beginning

792
00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:44,320
and then this whole area was

793
00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:48,320
close encounters with whatever ufos

794
00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:51,279
are and given the fact that this is sits

795
00:32:55,909 --> 00:32:53,200
on

796
00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:55,919
unfirmed ground and that sinkholes are

797
00:33:01,029 --> 00:32:58,159
all over the area one could

798
00:33:01,509 --> 00:33:01,039
uh relate it to the shaver mystery or or

799
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:01,519
or

800
00:33:08,149 --> 00:33:07,269
perhaps to that mysterious sound that i

801
00:33:12,149 --> 00:33:08,159
just heard

802
00:33:15,669 --> 00:33:12,159
or or to to um

803
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:15,679
high frequency or ultra low frequency

804
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:19,120
uh uh waves that may produce

805
00:33:23,830 --> 00:33:21,360
some contact between our dimension and

806
00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:23,840
another and that comes and goes

807
00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:27,120
may last four years may last forever

808
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:30,240
may last for two seconds and uh

809
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:32,960
that was uh sort of the beginning of my

810
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:33,840
feeling about that

811
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:35,679
another case like that that you were

812
00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:38,240
involved with tim was the um

813
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:40,880
the ralph lail experience at brown

814
00:33:45,269 --> 00:33:42,960
mountain of course

815
00:33:46,549 --> 00:33:45,279
i was just going to mention that that

816
00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:46,559
seems to be almost

817
00:33:51,990 --> 00:33:49,519
a a parallel uh incident at least as far

818
00:33:53,830 --> 00:33:52,000
as the personality of the

819
00:33:55,029 --> 00:33:53,840
gentleman in involved by the name of

820
00:33:58,470 --> 00:33:55,039
ralph laro

821
00:34:00,710 --> 00:33:58,480
now it was you allen and um

822
00:34:03,789 --> 00:34:00,720
jim mosley and myself and we went there

823
00:34:05,269 --> 00:34:03,799
i think it was a christmas uh week of

824
00:34:08,710 --> 00:34:05,279
1968.

825
00:34:11,990 --> 00:34:08,720
it was the same week as as the um

826
00:34:14,069 --> 00:34:12,000
um um the first

827
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:14,079
circling of the moon apollo eight was

828
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:15,040
that that's okay

829
00:34:19,109 --> 00:34:17,520
right because i believe yeah okay yeah

830
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:19,119
that's right

831
00:34:22,149 --> 00:34:20,560
back to your hotel room they were

832
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:22,159
reading the bible and i said oh god

833
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:24,720
they're in trouble

834
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:26,240
well that's probably the only thing we

835
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:27,760
had to read being in that neighborhood

836
00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:28,960
uh you know the part of the

837
00:34:32,310 --> 00:34:30,800
country he didn't read it the guys on

838
00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:32,320
the moon were

839
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:45,909
was quite an interesting character now

840
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:47,040
uh he had

841
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:50,800
um a little uh uh what museum

842
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:53,200
it was the outer space museum he sold

843
00:34:57,829 --> 00:34:54,800
like a beef jerky

844
00:34:59,430 --> 00:34:57,839
and and soda pop it was right up on top

845
00:35:01,589 --> 00:34:59,440
of the mountain near where the

846
00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:01,599
observation area was for the brown

847
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:02,560
mountain lights

848
00:35:05,349 --> 00:35:04,240
and for listeners who are not familiar

849
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:05,359
with the brown mountain lights and i

850
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:06,000
can't imagine

851
00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:07,920
anybody that would be listening to this

852
00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:09,520
show it's a

853
00:35:16,150 --> 00:35:12,960
an area in the mountains uh near

854
00:35:18,310 --> 00:35:16,160
morganton north carolina

855
00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:18,320
where these mysterious we call them

856
00:35:22,150 --> 00:35:19,599
spook lights

857
00:35:23,829 --> 00:35:22,160
uh plasma balls have been seen for

858
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:23,839
hundreds of years the

859
00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:26,000
legends even go back to the native

860
00:35:29,910 --> 00:35:27,040
americans who live

861
00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:29,920
in that uh area and basically the balls

862
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:31,520
on certain occasions

863
00:35:35,670 --> 00:35:35,040
a wander around the the mountaintops and

864
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:35,680
and down

865
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:38,480
into the valley uh they have been

866
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:40,560
photographed now on several occasions

867
00:35:45,190 --> 00:35:43,440
by um joshua p warren who of course is

868
00:35:48,069 --> 00:35:45,200
the host of speaking strange and

869
00:35:48,790 --> 00:35:48,079
he's probably the local authority on the

870
00:35:51,510 --> 00:35:48,800
subject but

871
00:35:53,109 --> 00:35:51,520
ralph laurel claims that he actually had

872
00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:53,119
contact with the beings

873
00:35:56,310 --> 00:35:55,680
who were responsible for these uh spook

874
00:35:58,470 --> 00:35:56,320
lights

875
00:35:59,349 --> 00:35:58,480
and went into the mountain on several

876
00:36:01,270 --> 00:35:59,359
occasions

877
00:36:02,470 --> 00:36:01,280
apparently the the mountain is covered

878
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:02,480
in crystal because

879
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:04,160
that's another thing he had in his shop

880
00:36:07,430 --> 00:36:06,880
he had a mummified alien or so he

881
00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:07,440
claimed

882
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:09,200
and some giant crystal that he had

883
00:36:13,109 --> 00:36:10,800
purportedly gotten from

884
00:36:14,470 --> 00:36:13,119
inside the mountain and he claims that

885
00:36:17,750 --> 00:36:14,480
he actually went

886
00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:17,760
uh for a ride in their spacecraft to

887
00:36:20,069 --> 00:36:18,400
some

888
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:20,079
uh planet that we've never heard of i

889
00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:21,839
can't think fabulous

890
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:23,520
no no no that was woody derenberg you

891
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:27,040
know this was some a totally wrong

892
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:29,359
there you go okay p1 i've been there two

893
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:30,960
or three times but i don't you know

894
00:36:35,829 --> 00:36:34,079
only only on saturdays but um anyway he

895
00:36:36,870 --> 00:36:35,839
was he was an interesting character and

896
00:36:38,950 --> 00:36:36,880
also to

897
00:36:40,230 --> 00:36:38,960
somewhat of a simple gentleman very

898
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:40,240
kind-hearted

899
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:43,760
uh very you know

900
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:45,680
these are almost like folklorists i

901
00:36:48,390 --> 00:36:46,800
guess you would say

902
00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:48,400
very great you know you'd want to have a

903
00:36:52,470 --> 00:36:50,320
conversa you could be mesmerized

904
00:36:54,069 --> 00:36:52,480
by these people for you know a period of

905
00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:54,079
time while they told you

906
00:36:58,069 --> 00:36:56,640
they're tall tales now how much of it

907
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,079
was legitimate and

908
00:37:01,910 --> 00:36:59,920
you know or genuine that really happened

909
00:37:04,950 --> 00:37:01,920
to them and how much was uh

910
00:37:07,109 --> 00:37:04,960
perhaps um encased in their mind through

911
00:37:10,190 --> 00:37:07,119
mind control of some type or

912
00:37:11,589 --> 00:37:10,200
or some outside oz effect by the

913
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:11,599
ultra-terrestrials

914
00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:13,680
uh we can only ponder that and perhaps

915
00:37:19,670 --> 00:37:15,200
we will in the next

916
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:19,680
hour but then we move on from 1965 now

917
00:37:26,390 --> 00:37:23,280
just before we leave 64 and get into 65

918
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:26,400
there were also quite a few uh sightings

919
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:27,760
if i recall around

920
00:37:34,390 --> 00:37:31,119
military installations uh

921
00:37:36,150 --> 00:37:34,400
radar reports as well as

922
00:37:39,670 --> 00:37:36,160
pilots are seeing these things in the in

923
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:39,680
the in the sky and yeah

924
00:37:43,910 --> 00:37:41,440
there were even a number of cases around

925
00:37:47,349 --> 00:37:43,920
the washington dc area between

926
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:47,359
the the end of 64 and early into

927
00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:50,240
into 65 so there was a lot of stuff that

928
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:51,680
was happening at that time

929
00:37:56,950 --> 00:37:53,440
and in fact i have a uh there's an

930
00:37:59,349 --> 00:37:56,960
interview on our youtube channel mr

931
00:38:00,150 --> 00:37:59,359
ufo secret falls with a gentleman by the

932
00:38:02,950 --> 00:38:00,160
name of paul

933
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:02,960
dickey who actually was involved in one

934
00:38:07,109 --> 00:38:03,440
of those

935
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:07,119
flaps over washington dc uh he's a

936
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:10,160
elderly gentleman and he i remember when

937
00:38:12,950 --> 00:38:11,680
i was over his house he lives near

938
00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:12,960
tucson

939
00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:15,200
he actually took out embarrassingly took

940
00:38:17,910 --> 00:38:16,079
out notes

941
00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:17,920
and he said i'm sorry i have to refer to

942
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:19,920
them and i said to him you know i wish

943
00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:21,680
other people had notes they could refer

944
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:22,960
to them as

945
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:25,119
as well and he told a a number of

946
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:26,720
incidences that took place outside of

947
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:28,240
the washington dc area

948
00:38:32,310 --> 00:38:30,000
and this would have been in the late 50s

949
00:38:35,589 --> 00:38:32,320
uh mid 60s up into the late

950
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:35,599
uh 60s so there was a lot of activity

951
00:38:44,069 --> 00:38:40,560
and then of course came 1965

952
00:38:46,870 --> 00:38:44,079
and the stump gas incident in

953
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:46,880
ann arbor michigan and dexter where the

954
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:48,400
college students primarily but there

955
00:38:53,270 --> 00:38:50,000
were other witnesses as well

956
00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:53,280
saw this object or series of objects

957
00:38:56,550 --> 00:38:54,960
actually it's turned out to be if you

958
00:38:57,990 --> 00:38:56,560
actually study the case and go back and

959
00:39:01,109 --> 00:38:58,000
read the reports

960
00:39:01,430 --> 00:39:01,119
uh saw this object in a swampy area kind

961
00:39:03,750 --> 00:39:01,440
of

962
00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:03,760
going up and down rising and lowering

963
00:39:09,030 --> 00:39:06,320
but it was a metallic structure

964
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:09,040
and it was it was not swamp gas i mean

965
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:10,400
of course dr heineck

966
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:12,160
kind of got pinned with this and and for

967
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:13,520
a long time people

968
00:39:16,870 --> 00:39:16,000
uh you know kind of spoofed or performed

969
00:39:19,510 --> 00:39:16,880
him as being

970
00:39:21,270 --> 00:39:19,520
you know dr swamp guest but these were

971
00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:21,280
legitimate objects of one type or

972
00:39:23,990 --> 00:39:21,680
another

973
00:39:26,550 --> 00:39:24,000
they were not just little uh you know

974
00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:26,560
plasmas or balls of light or flickering

975
00:39:30,550 --> 00:39:29,760
uh wickets it seemed to be something

976
00:39:33,190 --> 00:39:30,560
under

977
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:33,200
intelligent control and of course that

978
00:39:37,349 --> 00:39:34,079
made the mass

979
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:37,359
media even walter concrete talked about

980
00:39:41,190 --> 00:39:38,000
it on

981
00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:41,200
cbs news and it caused quite

982
00:39:46,790 --> 00:39:45,040
quite a stir to say the least and um

983
00:39:48,870 --> 00:39:46,800
it was followed by quite a few other

984
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:48,880
sightings in in reports

985
00:39:56,310 --> 00:39:52,480
were you guys involved in any of that

986
00:39:58,950 --> 00:39:56,320
not involved in the the stuff up around

987
00:40:00,870 --> 00:39:58,960
dexter michigan though that was in 66 by

988
00:40:04,069 --> 00:40:00,880
the way not 65

989
00:40:05,589 --> 00:40:04,079
but getting back to 65 well let me back

990
00:40:06,550 --> 00:40:05,599
up a little bit now we were talking

991
00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:06,560
about you know

992
00:40:10,630 --> 00:40:09,760
ralph lail and and and the reeves case

993
00:40:13,589 --> 00:40:10,640
and whatnot

994
00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:13,599
you you it seemed to me you had a lot of

995
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:15,520
contactees who were rather you know

996
00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:17,280
bucolic at nature

997
00:40:21,910 --> 00:40:20,880
uh you had buck nelson another prime

998
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:21,920
example

999
00:40:26,069 --> 00:40:24,160
um you had the fellow that that claimed

1000
00:40:27,030 --> 00:40:26,079
he was a native american you know i

1001
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:27,040
figured with that

1002
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:29,280
what his name was but i got stuck on a

1003
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:31,440
radio or tv show with uh

1004
00:40:35,270 --> 00:40:34,240
i believe with him uh he claimed he was

1005
00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:35,280
in contact with

1006
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:38,640
uh people from the planet orion or

1007
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:40,800
something like that in some other galaxy

1008
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:43,760
was that chief standing of course it

1009
00:40:49,829 --> 00:40:44,400
could be

1010
00:40:50,309 --> 00:40:49,839
and gray and i were on trying to promote

1011
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:50,319
our

1012
00:40:55,109 --> 00:40:52,720
convention in 68 in cleveland curiously

1013
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:55,119
enough and we went on the allen douglas

1014
00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:58,319
show and uh he happened yeah

1015
00:41:01,750 --> 00:41:00,240
and this this the guy in the headdress

1016
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:01,760
happened to show up we thought we were

1017
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:03,280
just going to be interviewed about the

1018
00:41:06,390 --> 00:41:05,520
the convention and it turned into a

1019
00:41:08,550 --> 00:41:06,400
circus

1020
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:08,560
but anyway you know you have these you

1021
00:41:13,190 --> 00:41:10,079
have these characters

1022
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:13,200
uh these contactees turn out to be

1023
00:41:17,990 --> 00:41:15,599
rather simple people but you know

1024
00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:18,000
they're they're a character

1025
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:19,760
is there some reason is there a

1026
00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:22,400
possibility that whatever is behind

1027
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:24,240
the mystery the ultra-terrestrials

1028
00:41:28,550 --> 00:41:25,760
whatever you want to call them is just

1029
00:41:29,589 --> 00:41:28,560
some reason why these people are more

1030
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:29,599
receptive

1031
00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:31,440
to their visits uh through their

1032
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:33,040
influence you know there's another good

1033
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:34,400
question there

1034
00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:38,160
there's uh a theory that schizophrenia

1035
00:41:42,309 --> 00:41:41,359
is not a disease but it's the opening up

1036
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:42,319
of another

1037
00:41:46,550 --> 00:41:45,200
sense that we don't ordinarily have to

1038
00:41:49,829 --> 00:41:46,560
things that we don't or

1039
00:41:53,109 --> 00:41:49,839
that are just as real as things that we

1040
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:53,119
all experience with our regular set of

1041
00:41:57,589 --> 00:41:55,200
senses if you want to call them that

1042
00:41:59,109 --> 00:41:57,599
the things we've evolved and the

1043
00:42:03,270 --> 00:41:59,119
difference between

1044
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:03,280
a prophet or seer and a schizophrenic as

1045
00:42:08,230 --> 00:42:04,720
a schizophrenic

1046
00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:08,240
is unable to to articulate and handle it

1047
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:10,560
or only articulates it in some sort of

1048
00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:11,680
bizarre way

1049
00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:14,640
like david koresh or whatever you hear

1050
00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:15,280
voices

1051
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:18,240
and you presume things about them that

1052
00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:19,200
go beyond

1053
00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:22,240
what what you're actually experiencing

1054
00:42:27,510 --> 00:42:25,520
and that divides those who are

1055
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:27,520
the only thing that really matters are

1056
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:28,800
you functional

1057
00:42:32,390 --> 00:42:31,680
as a human being and in society and able

1058
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:32,400
to

1059
00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:34,560
get by and look both ways when you cross

1060
00:42:38,150 --> 00:42:36,960
the street or are you dysfunctional if

1061
00:42:41,030 --> 00:42:38,160
you're dysfunctional

1062
00:42:42,630 --> 00:42:41,040
you're nuts if you're not if you're able

1063
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:42,640
to handle these things

1064
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:45,760
it's opening the doors of perception to

1065
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:48,480
borrow a term from huxley who borrowed

1066
00:42:56,470 --> 00:42:54,309
18th century help me here somebody

1067
00:42:58,950 --> 00:42:56,480
that's literate

1068
00:43:00,069 --> 00:42:58,960
well one of those great philosophers and

1069
00:43:01,750 --> 00:43:00,079
also a terrific

1070
00:43:03,190 --> 00:43:01,760
artist whose name escapes me at the

1071
00:43:05,510 --> 00:43:03,200
moment and that's

1072
00:43:08,470 --> 00:43:05,520
that's going to throw me off you don't

1073
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:10,230
too it must not be there because i'm

1074
00:43:25,030 --> 00:43:23,510
william blake william blake william

1075
00:43:28,390 --> 00:43:25,040
blake william blake

1076
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:28,400
coined the term which was if the doors

1077
00:43:31,990 --> 00:43:29,680
of perception

1078
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:32,000
were cleansed we would see the universe

1079
00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:33,280
as it truly is

1080
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:36,480
infinite i'm paraphrasing it slightly

1081
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:37,920
but that's the essence

1082
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:40,800
and aldous huxley much later uh wrote

1083
00:43:45,670 --> 00:43:42,560
the book doors of perception

1084
00:43:48,710 --> 00:43:45,680
and of course jim morrison took the name

1085
00:43:51,349 --> 00:43:48,720
for the uh band and uh the

1086
00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:51,359
the work that he did uh in his brief

1087
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:52,000
life

1088
00:43:57,990 --> 00:43:55,280
for the doors and we go on and on i

1089
00:44:00,309 --> 00:43:58,000
i think that that actually is true and i

1090
00:44:02,870 --> 00:44:00,319
think that these

1091
00:44:04,470 --> 00:44:02,880
simple-minded people perhaps are more

1092
00:44:06,870 --> 00:44:04,480
open

1093
00:44:09,109 --> 00:44:06,880
to experience because they don't have

1094
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:09,119
all the acculturation that says no no

1095
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:12,720
no no we can't have that we know that if

1096
00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:14,560
somebody is walking down the street and

1097
00:44:18,550 --> 00:44:16,480
their feet are not on the ground

1098
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:18,560
this needs to be canceled out of our

1099
00:44:22,470 --> 00:44:20,880
minds so we don't see it

1100
00:44:24,150 --> 00:44:22,480
well you know with that with that bit of

1101
00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:24,160
philosophical thought uh

1102
00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:26,079
tim do you think we should have a little

1103
00:44:30,069 --> 00:44:28,240
uh momentary break here

1104
00:44:31,829 --> 00:44:30,079
yes it's uh this is a perfect

1105
00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:31,839
opportunity to uh

1106
00:44:36,390 --> 00:44:34,640
go to a break and to give everybody a

1107
00:44:38,550 --> 00:44:36,400
chance to uh

1108
00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:38,560
refresh their drinks and everything like

1109
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:39,599
that so

1110
00:44:46,470 --> 00:44:41,520
i have a motorman's friend i don't need

1111
00:44:50,550 --> 00:44:48,470
we will come back and we will we will

1112
00:44:52,230 --> 00:44:50,560
move through the decade and we will talk

1113
00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:52,240
a little bit about the history of the

1114
00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:53,200
organization

1115
00:44:57,670 --> 00:44:56,560
itself some of the uh high points and

1116
00:44:59,829 --> 00:44:57,680
perhaps some of the

1117
00:45:01,910 --> 00:44:59,839
low points like the year the uh

1118
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:01,920
conference was cancelled because of 9

1119
00:45:05,349 --> 00:45:03,200
11.

1120
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:05,359
and then we're going to talk about the

1121
00:45:10,069 --> 00:45:06,480
plans for the

1122
00:45:11,750 --> 00:45:10,079
event this uh coming summer which i plan

1123
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:11,760
to be at and i'm sure

1124
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:14,400
that um in fact a bit uh indrid cold

1125
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:16,240
said he was coming i believe it was

1126
00:45:28,870 --> 00:45:26,790
don't give away our secret anyway let's

1127
00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:28,880
go to a break and we will be back in a

1128
00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:29,760
few minutes

1129
00:45:36,390 --> 00:45:33,280
with rick hillberg alan greenfield

1130
00:45:40,069 --> 00:45:36,400
carla anderson

1131
00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:40,079
tim schwartz and me which is

1132
00:45:46,150 --> 00:45:43,119
timothy green beckley mr ufo

1133
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:46,160
and you are listening to unraveling

1134
00:45:58,829 --> 00:45:48,079
the secrets so we're going to get

1135
00:46:11,270 --> 00:46:04,550
back

1136
00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:11,280
the secrets and we've got a

1137
00:46:15,750 --> 00:46:14,160
good conversation going here we're

1138
00:46:18,550 --> 00:46:15,760
trucking right along

1139
00:46:21,109 --> 00:46:18,560
down the highway of you follow me now i

1140
00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:21,119
had a question for alan tim

1141
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:24,560
well okay okay i just wanted to

1142
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:28,319
reintroduce the guests rick hillberg

1143
00:46:35,430 --> 00:46:31,680
alan greenfield tim schwartz

1144
00:46:36,950 --> 00:46:35,440
uh carla anderson and perhaps ed biebel

1145
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:36,960
if he shows up towards the end of the

1146
00:46:40,950 --> 00:46:37,520
show

1147
00:46:47,349 --> 00:46:40,960
today was ed's birthday and he went to a

1148
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:50,309
that's so bad but i would hire a couple

1149
00:46:54,710 --> 00:46:51,440
of strippers

1150
00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:54,720
but i'd want to i went to a uh a

1151
00:47:00,870 --> 00:46:57,359
mufa meeting to celebrate so in tucson

1152
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:05,670
man

1153
00:47:14,710 --> 00:47:10,950
yeah not a member

1154
00:47:22,829 --> 00:47:14,720
okay carla you have the floor oh uh alan

1155
00:47:22,839 --> 00:47:33,990
hahaha

1156
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:35,510
so you were just talking about uh

1157
00:47:38,950 --> 00:47:37,040
schizophrenia you know and being in

1158
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:38,960
touch with that other sense

1159
00:47:43,030 --> 00:47:41,280
and uh that perhaps somebody is walking

1160
00:47:44,710 --> 00:47:43,040
by floating above the ground and your

1161
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:44,720
mind can't slit out

1162
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:46,800
and because it's something maybe maybe

1163
00:47:50,870 --> 00:47:48,880
it's a reality that we can't handle

1164
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:50,880
and so we create our own reality which

1165
00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:52,000
is that everyone's just walking

1166
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:53,280
around when maybe people are just

1167
00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:55,280
floating by and we just can't deal with

1168
00:47:58,230 --> 00:47:56,079
it

1169
00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:58,240
and i think a lot of the times maybe the

1170
00:48:00,549 --> 00:47:59,200
reason that

1171
00:48:02,549 --> 00:48:00,559
no one's getting anywhere with the whole

1172
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:02,559
ufo research or

1173
00:48:05,670 --> 00:48:04,400
or what the whole mystery of it is is

1174
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:05,680
that maybe it's something that we just

1175
00:48:09,589 --> 00:48:06,960
really can't process

1176
00:48:10,549 --> 00:48:09,599
i'm a hairdresser and i talk to people

1177
00:48:12,069 --> 00:48:10,559
all day

1178
00:48:13,270 --> 00:48:12,079
and i'll you know i'll show them ufo

1179
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:13,280
videos in the middle of their haircut

1180
00:48:15,589 --> 00:48:14,720
and we'll just get into a conversation

1181
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:15,599
about it

1182
00:48:18,950 --> 00:48:17,040
because you know because i am doing the

1183
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:18,960
show and because tim's been my friend

1184
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:20,640
for a very long time and i've had ufo

1185
00:48:24,549 --> 00:48:21,920
art my salon and

1186
00:48:25,829 --> 00:48:24,559
the topic comes up a lot and people

1187
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:25,839
knowing that i'm involved with all that

1188
00:48:29,270 --> 00:48:26,480
will come in

1189
00:48:29,670 --> 00:48:29,280
and talk to me about it as well but you

1190
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:29,680
could

1191
00:48:35,990 --> 00:48:33,680
something that looks

1192
00:48:37,109 --> 00:48:36,000
like it was an actual sighting you can

1193
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:37,119
talk about

1194
00:48:40,790 --> 00:48:38,400
all the things that people have talked

1195
00:48:42,309 --> 00:48:40,800
about and you know that 250 million

1196
00:48:43,510 --> 00:48:42,319
people have claimed to be abducted you

1197
00:48:45,750 --> 00:48:43,520
could tell them all that

1198
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:45,760
and they just you know they just they

1199
00:48:48,230 --> 00:48:46,960
just cancel it right out of their head

1200
00:48:50,069 --> 00:48:48,240
and get on with their day again it's

1201
00:48:51,750 --> 00:48:50,079
like people i think can't handle it

1202
00:48:53,670 --> 00:48:51,760
can't process the thought you know i

1203
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:53,680
think it's something that

1204
00:48:58,150 --> 00:48:56,160
it just goes right over their head i

1205
00:49:02,069 --> 00:48:58,160
think that in some cases

1206
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:02,079
um people will see different things

1207
00:49:06,230 --> 00:49:04,880
because we're not really seeing the the

1208
00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:06,240
reality

1209
00:49:10,870 --> 00:49:09,280
uh we may not even be capable of seeing

1210
00:49:13,990 --> 00:49:10,880
the reality if something

1211
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:14,000
is multi-dimensional and phasing in and

1212
00:49:17,910 --> 00:49:15,119
phasing out

1213
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:17,920
somebody might see a bigfoot type

1214
00:49:22,790 --> 00:49:20,480
creature somebody might see a mothman

1215
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:22,800
someone might see a man in black or

1216
00:49:28,950 --> 00:49:25,920
three men in black or two or seventeen

1217
00:49:30,790 --> 00:49:28,960
some people might see a ufo some people

1218
00:49:32,630 --> 00:49:30,800
might see nothing at all the vast

1219
00:49:35,349 --> 00:49:32,640
majority would see nothing at all

1220
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:35,359
but it could be from the same stimulus

1221
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:36,880
there's a great book

1222
00:49:43,109 --> 00:49:40,480
written by edward edwin abbott it goes

1223
00:49:44,230 --> 00:49:43,119
back to the 1890s and is available as a

1224
00:49:47,349 --> 00:49:44,240
free pdf

1225
00:49:50,710 --> 00:49:47,359
just google it called flatland

1226
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:50,720
and it's about two dimensional creatures

1227
00:49:54,790 --> 00:49:53,280
encountering a three-dimensional being

1228
00:49:56,390 --> 00:49:54,800
you know like us

1229
00:49:57,990 --> 00:49:56,400
and what they would see and what they

1230
00:49:59,910 --> 00:49:58,000
wouldn't see and how they would

1231
00:50:01,990 --> 00:49:59,920
process it and how they wouldn't process

1232
00:50:04,630 --> 00:50:02,000
it the vast majority of course

1233
00:50:05,109 --> 00:50:04,640
are like your clients they simply deny

1234
00:50:08,710 --> 00:50:05,119
that it

1235
00:50:10,829 --> 00:50:08,720
it say no no

1236
00:50:12,069 --> 00:50:10,839
i know that this exists but what they're

1237
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:12,079
describing

1238
00:50:15,510 --> 00:50:14,720
is only just the edge of the reality

1239
00:50:18,549 --> 00:50:15,520
because

1240
00:50:21,750 --> 00:50:18,559
if you encounter a three-dimensional

1241
00:50:22,870 --> 00:50:21,760
object uh say us southerners have a

1242
00:50:26,230 --> 00:50:22,880
problem with this word

1243
00:50:27,030 --> 00:50:26,240
spear sphere help me rick you're from

1244
00:50:31,109 --> 00:50:27,040
ohio

1245
00:50:34,150 --> 00:50:31,119
that's the american accent yes fear

1246
00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:34,160
spear right they appear to see it

1247
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:36,640
they can't see it because they're not

1248
00:50:40,630 --> 00:50:38,000
evolved to see that

1249
00:50:42,309 --> 00:50:40,640
what they will see is a is a an edge

1250
00:50:45,589 --> 00:50:42,319
that goes

1251
00:50:47,510 --> 00:50:45,599
uh that's just the touching of the

1252
00:50:49,589 --> 00:50:47,520
three-dimensional object to their

1253
00:50:51,670 --> 00:50:49,599
two-dimensional reality

1254
00:50:52,870 --> 00:50:51,680
and of course the book is fiction but

1255
00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:52,880
the point is

1256
00:50:56,390 --> 00:50:55,200
that and at the end of the book it it

1257
00:50:58,790 --> 00:50:56,400
does talk about

1258
00:50:59,910 --> 00:50:58,800
what if there are four and five and six

1259
00:51:05,190 --> 00:50:59,920
dimensions

1260
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:16,470
exactly

1261
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:34,790
i won't talk until the world is

1262
00:51:39,030 --> 00:51:37,270
from their galaxy and that's okay with

1263
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:39,040
me

1264
00:51:45,109 --> 00:51:43,200
i love the aliens they're so weird

1265
00:51:47,030 --> 00:51:45,119
did i answer your question carlo or did

1266
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:47,040
i ramble on like an old man i know you

1267
00:51:51,190 --> 00:51:48,000
answered my question

1268
00:51:51,829 --> 00:51:51,200
i i what do you think tim well you know

1269
00:51:54,390 --> 00:51:51,839
i i think

1270
00:51:55,790 --> 00:51:54,400
let it let us just get back to the uh to

1271
00:52:01,430 --> 00:51:55,800
uh

1272
00:52:06,390 --> 00:52:04,230
there's a man who loves now we've

1273
00:52:09,349 --> 00:52:06,400
squeezed 47 years

1274
00:52:11,270 --> 00:52:09,359
into about 45 minutes i think you're on

1275
00:52:15,270 --> 00:52:11,280
66 but go ahead sweetie

1276
00:52:18,309 --> 00:52:15,280
okay all right we are past the um

1277
00:52:19,750 --> 00:52:18,319
the swamp gas incident and uh

1278
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:19,760
let's talk a little bit about the

1279
00:52:24,630 --> 00:52:21,359
organization itself now

1280
00:52:25,510 --> 00:52:24,640
i know when i first uh attended uh the

1281
00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:25,520
uh

1282
00:52:34,790 --> 00:52:32,000
high school in parma ohio

1283
00:52:36,390 --> 00:52:34,800
was that the second one rick uh well

1284
00:52:39,589 --> 00:52:36,400
actually the second one was

1285
00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:39,599
at a junior high school in parma it was

1286
00:52:46,549 --> 00:52:43,910
we had two kinds of sessions and it's

1287
00:52:48,870 --> 00:52:46,559
important we had we had a hotel which

1288
00:52:49,910 --> 00:52:48,880
had a marquee that said welcome ufo

1289
00:52:53,349 --> 00:52:49,920
people or whatever

1290
00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:53,359
yeah yeah american ufo whatever

1291
00:52:57,270 --> 00:52:55,680
and uh or whatever it was yeah so we

1292
00:52:58,790 --> 00:52:57,280
were we hastened to get our picture

1293
00:53:00,150 --> 00:52:58,800
taken in front of that because it made

1294
00:53:02,390 --> 00:53:00,160
us feel important and then we

1295
00:53:04,950 --> 00:53:02,400
we adjourned to the high school and for

1296
00:53:07,990 --> 00:53:04,960
the first and i think only time

1297
00:53:10,790 --> 00:53:08,000
yona ibn aaron gave a fabulous

1298
00:53:11,270 --> 00:53:10,800
talk which was over the head of the

1299
00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:11,280
rather

1300
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:14,000
good-sized audience that there are about

1301
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:15,760
500 people there if i remember but i

1302
00:53:19,190 --> 00:53:18,640
sure wish that that had been recorded

1303
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:19,200
because

1304
00:53:26,870 --> 00:53:22,960
jonah was way way ahead of his time

1305
00:53:29,510 --> 00:53:26,880
and uh the more i have learned and the

1306
00:53:31,430 --> 00:53:29,520
the further my education is gone and

1307
00:53:35,030 --> 00:53:31,440
comparative religion and what not

1308
00:53:36,150 --> 00:53:35,040
uh um uh that the more i have come to

1309
00:53:39,510 --> 00:53:36,160
respect uh

1310
00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:39,520
yonah's uh point of view which was

1311
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:41,520
so far ahead of the time i think that

1312
00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:44,240
even we who fancied ourselves

1313
00:53:48,069 --> 00:53:46,720
way ahead of everybody else in ufology

1314
00:53:52,069 --> 00:53:48,079
and we were

1315
00:53:53,910 --> 00:53:52,079
uh nevertheless uh he was

1316
00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:53,920
under appreciated and that's the only

1317
00:53:57,910 --> 00:53:56,240
time i can ever recall him speaking i'm

1318
00:53:59,910 --> 00:53:57,920
maybe for the discussion and lecture

1319
00:54:02,309 --> 00:53:59,920
committee tim did he speak

1320
00:54:04,309 --> 00:54:02,319
yes uh yeah now that would have been

1321
00:54:04,710 --> 00:54:04,319
even maybe perhaps a little bit before i

1322
00:54:06,870 --> 00:54:04,720
got

1323
00:54:08,630 --> 00:54:06,880
involved in it and you know there's very

1324
00:54:11,670 --> 00:54:08,640
little that you can find about

1325
00:54:13,430 --> 00:54:11,680
or by iona on the internet i mean i

1326
00:54:15,109 --> 00:54:13,440
i've even often thought about maybe

1327
00:54:16,710 --> 00:54:15,119
reprinting some of his collective

1328
00:54:18,630 --> 00:54:16,720
articles from saucer news

1329
00:54:20,069 --> 00:54:18,640
but i cannot find anything because now

1330
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:20,079
yonah uh

1331
00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:23,040
the rabbi he he wrote he was the first

1332
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:24,960
to uh certainly among the first to write

1333
00:54:30,069 --> 00:54:26,000
about the

1334
00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:30,079
uh concept of ancient uh beings uh

1335
00:54:36,549 --> 00:54:34,400
aliens thanks to rick i have all of the

1336
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:36,559
all of the ones from saucer news but

1337
00:54:39,750 --> 00:54:39,359
there's a whole series of articles from

1338
00:54:42,069 --> 00:54:39,760
the

1339
00:54:44,549 --> 00:54:42,079
consultants committee on semitic

1340
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:44,559
philology that was edited by

1341
00:54:48,309 --> 00:54:47,920
by uh jack robinson and yonah and there

1342
00:54:51,750 --> 00:54:48,319
were

1343
00:54:52,710 --> 00:54:51,760
same thing if i can get them all

1344
00:54:54,069 --> 00:54:52,720
together

1345
00:54:55,750 --> 00:54:54,079
like that would be that would be

1346
00:54:58,069 --> 00:54:55,760
marvelous for the the

1347
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:58,079
uh you know small audience i'll put it

1348
00:55:01,990 --> 00:54:59,359
together and you probably

1349
00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:02,000
should okay absolutely you're right the

1350
00:55:09,829 --> 00:55:02,880
introduction

1351
00:55:13,430 --> 00:55:12,390
i think the biggest convention obviously

1352
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:13,440
that was held

1353
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:15,359
was the one that jim mosley sponsored at

1354
00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:17,200
the hotel commodore

1355
00:55:28,230 --> 00:55:25,910
that's correct and i know i was i was

1356
00:55:28,789 --> 00:55:28,240
one of jim's assistants on the assistant

1357
00:55:32,710 --> 00:55:28,799
on that

1358
00:55:34,950 --> 00:55:32,720
i ran the telephone realm were you okay

1359
00:55:36,150 --> 00:55:34,960
you and gene steinberg were tied up and

1360
00:55:39,270 --> 00:55:36,160
bound in a room

1361
00:55:42,630 --> 00:55:39,280
where you were 24 hours a day

1362
00:55:43,789 --> 00:55:42,640
who are getting calls two or three

1363
00:55:47,349 --> 00:55:43,799
phones were ringing

1364
00:55:49,510 --> 00:55:47,359
simultaneously in fact i got so tired of

1365
00:55:51,349 --> 00:55:49,520
answering questions i'd be i pretended

1366
00:55:53,349 --> 00:55:51,359
to be an answering machine

1367
00:55:55,109 --> 00:55:53,359
so i would just rattle off for about one

1368
00:55:58,710 --> 00:55:55,119
minute and go on to the next call

1369
00:56:00,390 --> 00:55:58,720
were there answering machines no just me

1370
00:56:03,750 --> 00:56:00,400
i was the answering machine

1371
00:56:06,549 --> 00:56:03,760
okay uh and but what a marvelous turnout

1372
00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:06,559
there were close to somewhere between 10

1373
00:56:10,950 --> 00:56:07,599
and 12

1374
00:56:15,270 --> 00:56:10,960
000 people uh showed up to hear

1375
00:56:19,670 --> 00:56:15,280
the likes of vibe venus um

1376
00:56:22,309 --> 00:56:19,680
who else was on the program the amazing

1377
00:56:23,670 --> 00:56:22,319
long john neville was there roy finished

1378
00:56:26,710 --> 00:56:23,680
i introduced him

1379
00:56:27,589 --> 00:56:26,720
one of the times yeah dennis was there

1380
00:56:29,510 --> 00:56:27,599
briefly

1381
00:56:31,430 --> 00:56:29,520
yeah that's true he was under the

1382
00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:31,440
weather as it were yes yes

1383
00:56:34,789 --> 00:56:33,760
i got in an elevator with him and his

1384
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:34,799
then wife

1385
00:56:38,950 --> 00:56:37,760
and and steinberg and me and i was

1386
00:56:42,069 --> 00:56:38,960
trying to be cool

1387
00:56:44,549 --> 00:56:42,079
and gene being gene

1388
00:56:45,349 --> 00:56:44,559
took his picture in his face with a

1389
00:56:48,549 --> 00:56:45,359
flash

1390
00:56:51,069 --> 00:56:48,559
little camera and i was going oh god get

1391
00:56:53,430 --> 00:56:51,079
me to the floor i'm going to this is

1392
00:56:56,390 --> 00:56:53,440
humiliating

1393
00:56:57,829 --> 00:56:56,400
we even had spies from the east village

1394
00:56:59,990 --> 00:56:57,839
other who thought we were

1395
00:57:01,270 --> 00:57:00,000
into something much darker than we were

1396
00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:01,280
frank strange's was

1397
00:57:07,510 --> 00:57:04,720
there uh fresh food

1398
00:57:09,349 --> 00:57:07,520
edward made a surprise appearance dr

1399
00:57:12,230 --> 00:57:09,359
condon was there because he would

1400
00:57:12,549 --> 00:57:12,240
love to see us acting as uh as he would

1401
00:57:15,670 --> 00:57:12,559
think

1402
00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:15,680
silly as we did but nevertheless it had

1403
00:57:21,030 --> 00:57:17,839
i think that was john keele's first

1404
00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:24,829
how about louis who was the newest

1405
00:57:32,390 --> 00:57:26,160
candidate

1406
00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:35,910
anyway he really saw the 1960s

1407
00:57:40,950 --> 00:57:39,040
in full flower at that condition i've

1408
00:57:43,270 --> 00:57:40,960
always said that the contact e

1409
00:57:45,430 --> 00:57:43,280
conventions that preceded us

1410
00:57:47,430 --> 00:57:45,440
were really the birth of the new age

1411
00:57:50,150 --> 00:57:47,440
movement that is still ongoing

1412
00:57:51,150 --> 00:57:50,160
and our convention really was was kind

1413
00:57:56,470 --> 00:57:51,160
of the

1414
00:57:58,789 --> 00:57:56,480
the 60s which

1415
00:58:00,390 --> 00:57:58,799
they mean the late 60s because every

1416
00:58:02,150 --> 00:58:00,400
element of that was there

1417
00:58:05,030 --> 00:58:02,160
i'm not not sure that the weather

1418
00:58:05,430 --> 00:58:05,040
underground in its nastiest form wasn't

1419
00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:05,440
there

1420
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:07,520
but uh in fact i'm pretty sure it was

1421
00:58:11,670 --> 00:58:09,040
but we won't go into that

1422
00:58:13,109 --> 00:58:11,680
in any detail as there are still some

1423
00:58:14,710 --> 00:58:13,119
current warrants out there

1424
00:58:16,870 --> 00:58:14,720
i didn't say that i didn't say that that

1425
00:58:17,910 --> 00:58:16,880
was that was my schizophrenic side i was

1426
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:17,920
channeling

1427
00:58:24,710 --> 00:58:21,119
the people from p1 but

1428
00:58:27,030 --> 00:58:24,720
1968 it was a great year 68 let's skip

1429
00:58:28,549 --> 00:58:27,040
yeah you would think that jim would have

1430
00:58:29,190 --> 00:58:28,559
made some money on that with all the

1431
00:58:32,630 --> 00:58:29,200
people but

1432
00:58:35,349 --> 00:58:32,640
no he just about broke even you know why

1433
00:58:37,510 --> 00:58:35,359
because the way the hotel was set up uh

1434
00:58:38,630 --> 00:58:37,520
people in order to save the two or three

1435
00:58:41,349 --> 00:58:38,640
dollars admission

1436
00:58:42,230 --> 00:58:41,359
would get off on the mezzanine floor and

1437
00:58:44,390 --> 00:58:42,240
walk down

1438
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:44,400
one flight instead of taking the

1439
00:58:47,670 --> 00:58:46,319
elevator and the doors would open and

1440
00:58:52,030 --> 00:58:47,680
there would be the people there to take

1441
00:58:58,549 --> 00:58:55,030
1967 which was steep for

1442
00:59:02,549 --> 00:58:58,559
jim when when when i tried to uh do

1443
00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:02,559
uh in what was in 1995 a

1444
00:59:06,710 --> 00:59:04,720
i was kind of talked into it a really

1445
00:59:09,430 --> 00:59:06,720
big convention it cost us the same

1446
00:59:11,750 --> 00:59:09,440
amount but that was in 1995

1447
00:59:13,270 --> 00:59:11,760
and we broke even so i think in both

1448
00:59:15,750 --> 00:59:13,280
cases

1449
00:59:16,870 --> 00:59:15,760
uh we broke even on the really really

1450
00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:16,880
really really big

1451
00:59:21,910 --> 00:59:19,920
conventions but nothing ever equal was

1452
00:59:25,270 --> 00:59:21,920
that the one in atlanta

1453
00:59:28,470 --> 00:59:25,280
yep that was yeah it was the second one

1454
00:59:31,109 --> 00:59:28,480
yeah the first one was in 90 or 80 or

1455
00:59:36,069 --> 00:59:31,119
73 the first atlanta convention was in

1456
00:59:42,470 --> 00:59:39,829
about the convention is the hotel

1457
00:59:44,549 --> 00:59:42,480
if you remember we had we had closed

1458
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:44,559
sessions in the hotel

1459
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:47,280
yeah this is this was the usual thing

1460
00:59:52,230 --> 00:59:49,200
closed meaning people who were

1461
00:59:54,549 --> 00:59:52,240
delegates which was ill-defined but it

1462
00:59:56,549 --> 00:59:54,559
was basically whoever we decided

1463
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:56,559
was actually a ufologist and not a

1464
01:00:00,789 --> 00:59:57,920
spectator

1465
01:00:02,470 --> 01:00:00,799
and uh we had open sessions which were

1466
01:00:04,789 --> 01:00:02,480
for people who just wanted to hear the

1467
01:00:06,710 --> 01:00:04,799
speakers and in that year it was at the

1468
01:00:08,390 --> 01:00:06,720
linux square auditorium across the

1469
01:00:11,750 --> 01:00:08,400
street from the hotel

1470
01:00:15,270 --> 01:00:11,760
and uh gray barker spoke and uh

1471
01:00:18,230 --> 01:00:15,280
who else um um i know that uh breedman

1472
01:00:18,870 --> 01:00:18,240
uh yeah uh stan friedman we got him and

1473
01:00:22,789 --> 01:00:18,880
uh

1474
01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:22,799
crowd and

1475
01:00:30,069 --> 01:00:27,040
actually uh uh

1476
01:00:32,789 --> 01:00:30,079
a lot of people that i hadn't seen in

1477
01:00:35,349 --> 01:00:32,799
20 years meaning from my childhood

1478
01:00:38,630 --> 01:00:35,359
showed up at that convention so that was

1479
01:00:39,589 --> 01:00:38,640
very memorable for me but uh the one in

1480
01:00:41,910 --> 01:00:39,599
95 was

1481
01:00:43,990 --> 01:00:41,920
i got talked into that and it was

1482
01:00:47,829 --> 01:00:44,000
literally the last time that my

1483
01:00:50,230 --> 01:00:47,839
late uh best friend uh

1484
01:00:51,430 --> 01:00:50,240
oscar samson orion who was one of the

1485
01:00:53,109 --> 01:00:51,440
other sponsors

1486
01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:53,119
the last time i ever saw him he had

1487
01:00:59,270 --> 01:00:54,960
joined a cult and

1488
01:01:01,750 --> 01:00:59,280
later died in a rather predictable

1489
01:01:02,789 --> 01:01:01,760
car wreck because he was a speed demon

1490
01:01:05,589 --> 01:01:02,799
known to every

1491
01:01:06,710 --> 01:01:05,599
uh motorcycle cop in the city of atlanta

1492
01:01:09,990 --> 01:01:06,720
and

1493
01:01:13,990 --> 01:01:10,000
didn't make it to 50 but

1494
01:01:14,670 --> 01:01:14,000
uh he uh told me he was getting married

1495
01:01:17,670 --> 01:01:14,680
at

1496
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:17,680
46 47 which was you know

1497
01:01:22,470 --> 01:01:20,160
something that was never going to happen

1498
01:01:26,309 --> 01:01:22,480
uh did the convention but apparently

1499
01:01:28,630 --> 01:01:26,319
he had told me something that i found to

1500
01:01:31,670 --> 01:01:28,640
be untrue he said but we agreed that if

1501
01:01:33,990 --> 01:01:31,680
i say this is the voice of god

1502
01:01:35,990 --> 01:01:34,000
you will believe it i said yeah but this

1503
01:01:37,510 --> 01:01:36,000
just isn't true it isn't the voice of

1504
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:37,520
god it's the voice of sam

1505
01:01:41,190 --> 01:01:39,760
i never saw him again he did his duty

1506
01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:41,200
and he and his brother who is

1507
01:01:44,789 --> 01:01:43,680
still a friend of mine dr hilliard

1508
01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:44,799
gastrin

1509
01:01:49,190 --> 01:01:47,760
um they walked off and i'm still friends

1510
01:01:52,549 --> 01:01:49,200
with hilly although he lives in

1511
01:01:55,910 --> 01:01:52,559
alaska or somewhere that physicists go

1512
01:01:57,510 --> 01:01:55,920
and uh um and

1513
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:57,520
that was the last time i ever laid eyes

1514
01:02:01,910 --> 01:01:59,680
on sam

1515
01:02:04,230 --> 01:02:01,920
very sad in its own way but it was an

1516
01:02:06,470 --> 01:02:04,240
interesting convention

1517
01:02:07,589 --> 01:02:06,480
i remember i remember the conference

1518
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:07,599
that the gym and i

1519
01:02:13,829 --> 01:02:11,520
uh co-sponsored in on miami beach

1520
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:13,839
yeah we had we had a fairly good uh

1521
01:02:18,950 --> 01:02:15,200
attendance for that

1522
01:02:22,309 --> 01:02:18,960
except we had it on the weekend of

1523
01:02:24,069 --> 01:02:22,319
mother's day yes and up until four

1524
01:02:26,150 --> 01:02:24,079
o'clock in the afternoon

1525
01:02:27,750 --> 01:02:26,160
i think we had two people who paid to

1526
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:27,760
come in on that uh

1527
01:02:34,470 --> 01:02:31,200
sunday but the conference itself uh

1528
01:02:37,670 --> 01:02:34,480
we featured ed walters who

1529
01:02:40,789 --> 01:02:37,680
of course was the

1530
01:02:42,230 --> 01:02:40,799
fellow from gulf breeze florida who

1531
01:02:46,230 --> 01:02:42,240
maintained that he was

1532
01:02:49,270 --> 01:02:46,240
in contact with the

1533
01:02:50,230 --> 01:02:49,280
ufo entities occupants and was able to

1534
01:02:52,870 --> 01:02:50,240
photograph

1535
01:02:53,510 --> 01:02:52,880
uh ufos kind of with the the drop of a

1536
01:02:56,309 --> 01:02:53,520
dime

1537
01:02:57,190 --> 01:02:56,319
in fact now tim schwartz and i have just

1538
01:03:00,470 --> 01:02:57,200
completed

1539
01:03:01,270 --> 01:03:00,480
a book with um scott corrales and sean

1540
01:03:03,829 --> 01:03:01,280
castillo

1541
01:03:04,950 --> 01:03:03,839
called the ufo repeaters the camera

1542
01:03:06,230 --> 01:03:04,960
doesn't lie

1543
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:06,240
and we were going to talk about that a

1544
01:03:08,710 --> 01:03:08,160
little this evening but we got preempted

1545
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:08,720
by

1546
01:03:13,190 --> 01:03:11,760
skype and so we really won't get into it

1547
01:03:14,870 --> 01:03:13,200
except to say that the book is now

1548
01:03:17,750 --> 01:03:14,880
available on amazon

1549
01:03:18,230 --> 01:03:17,760
and it recounts the experiences of i

1550
01:03:21,510 --> 01:03:18,240
think

1551
01:03:24,549 --> 01:03:21,520
is it about 14 individuals um

1552
01:03:27,829 --> 01:03:24,559
tim yes yeah something like that okay

1553
01:03:30,549 --> 01:03:27,839
yes and tim i'll make sure that

1554
01:03:30,950 --> 01:03:30,559
i talk about it a little bit uh on the

1555
01:03:33,190 --> 01:03:30,960
uh

1556
01:03:34,390 --> 01:03:33,200
the show coming up right after this one

1557
01:03:37,029 --> 01:03:34,400
the outer edge

1558
01:03:37,750 --> 01:03:37,039
wait wait yes indeed this is a four

1559
01:03:41,270 --> 01:03:37,760
hours of

1560
01:03:51,190 --> 01:03:41,280
back to back madness paranoia

1561
01:03:56,150 --> 01:03:54,390
i don't know okay

1562
01:03:58,230 --> 01:03:56,160
rick you've edited how many different

1563
01:04:01,670 --> 01:03:58,240
ufo publications now

1564
01:04:04,230 --> 01:04:01,680
too many too many

1565
01:04:06,069 --> 01:04:04,240
the same one for many years four or five

1566
01:04:08,309 --> 01:04:06,079
must be four or five yeah

1567
01:04:10,470 --> 01:04:08,319
you may have you may have outside of the

1568
01:04:10,710 --> 01:04:10,480
uf uh the conspiracy journal that we put

1569
01:04:13,589 --> 01:04:10,720
out

1570
01:04:14,710 --> 01:04:13,599
occasionally you may have the only

1571
01:04:17,430 --> 01:04:14,720
regularly scheduled

1572
01:04:20,069 --> 01:04:17,440
printed publication the flying saucer

1573
01:04:23,109 --> 01:04:20,079
digest which is not really a digest

1574
01:04:24,069 --> 01:04:23,119
right was it ever a digest it's sort of

1575
01:04:29,510 --> 01:04:24,079
indigestion

1576
01:04:34,069 --> 01:04:31,349
hey i'm playing this lounge all week

1577
01:04:37,589 --> 01:04:35,670
seriously though yeah i believe it is

1578
01:04:38,470 --> 01:04:37,599
the last i like to say it's the last

1579
01:04:40,950 --> 01:04:38,480
traditional you

1580
01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:40,960
eufo as gray barker would have called it

1581
01:04:44,069 --> 01:04:42,480
or saucer zine

1582
01:04:46,230 --> 01:04:44,079
yes it is there are several others that

1583
01:04:46,630 --> 01:04:46,240
are still printed on on ink and paper

1584
01:04:48,789 --> 01:04:46,640
but

1585
01:04:51,430 --> 01:04:48,799
they don't really deal exclusively with

1586
01:04:51,829 --> 01:04:51,440
ufos well the only magazine that i know

1587
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:51,839
of

1588
01:04:56,870 --> 01:04:54,400
in the english language that is still

1589
01:04:59,990 --> 01:04:56,880
published on a regular basis

1590
01:05:03,589 --> 01:05:00,000
is called the australian ufologist

1591
01:05:06,069 --> 01:05:03,599
okay and uh i have seen it

1592
01:05:07,990 --> 01:05:06,079
once in a you know like every 10 years

1593
01:05:10,710 --> 01:05:08,000
it will show up at barnes and noble

1594
01:05:11,589 --> 01:05:10,720
but it is still a printed publication

1595
01:05:15,430 --> 01:05:11,599
and of course

1596
01:05:17,750 --> 01:05:15,440
there are now several uh e

1597
01:05:18,549 --> 01:05:17,760
magazines but you know i hate to say

1598
01:05:20,309 --> 01:05:18,559
this

1599
01:05:22,470 --> 01:05:20,319
but these guys can't get it out on a

1600
01:05:23,270 --> 01:05:22,480
regular basis i mean you know they start

1601
01:05:26,470 --> 01:05:23,280
a magazine

1602
01:05:28,950 --> 01:05:26,480
and uh you know months go by

1603
01:05:30,870 --> 01:05:28,960
and uh then they may get it out and they

1604
01:05:33,029 --> 01:05:30,880
may not get it out and that's not the

1605
01:05:35,430 --> 01:05:33,039
way to put out a magazine

1606
01:05:36,470 --> 01:05:35,440
as we know and i've been involved in

1607
01:05:38,710 --> 01:05:36,480
putting out over the years

1608
01:05:40,789 --> 01:05:38,720
numerous ufo publications that were

1609
01:05:42,789 --> 01:05:40,799
actually sold on the newsstand

1610
01:05:44,150 --> 01:05:42,799
uh there were quite a few magazines in

1611
01:05:45,990 --> 01:05:44,160
fact uh

1612
01:05:47,349 --> 01:05:46,000
somebody interviewing me for a

1613
01:05:51,109 --> 01:05:47,359
publication called

1614
01:05:53,270 --> 01:05:51,119
digest and the first issue has an

1615
01:05:55,270 --> 01:05:53,280
interview with phyllis goldy who of

1616
01:05:58,150 --> 01:05:55,280
course is the publisher of fate magazine

1617
01:05:59,589 --> 01:05:58,160
it's all about digest publications that

1618
01:06:01,670 --> 01:05:59,599
have come out over the

1619
01:06:03,990 --> 01:06:01,680
years not just about the paranormal i

1620
01:06:06,630 --> 01:06:04,000
mean you know everything from coronet to

1621
01:06:07,990 --> 01:06:06,640
a couple of little girly books and sex

1622
01:06:08,470 --> 01:06:08,000
digest i don't know whatever they would

1623
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:08,480
call

1624
01:06:12,069 --> 01:06:10,720
baseball digest wrestling digest you

1625
01:06:15,430 --> 01:06:12,079
know there used to be

1626
01:06:18,789 --> 01:06:15,440
quite a number of digest magazines now

1627
01:06:22,870 --> 01:06:18,799
i think it's hillary queen isaac asimov

1628
01:06:23,990 --> 01:06:22,880
and sci-fi fantasy or something like

1629
01:06:27,670 --> 01:06:24,000
they're very few

1630
01:06:29,510 --> 01:06:27,680
uh even soap opera digest the last i saw

1631
01:06:30,150 --> 01:06:29,520
it was not a digest anymore but still

1632
01:06:33,510 --> 01:06:30,160
being uh

1633
01:06:34,630 --> 01:06:33,520
well look uh they they really served uh

1634
01:06:36,870 --> 01:06:34,640
uh

1635
01:06:37,910 --> 01:06:36,880
i've especially in the science fiction

1636
01:06:40,549 --> 01:06:37,920
universe and

1637
01:06:43,190 --> 01:06:40,559
uh actually you can make an argument

1638
01:06:46,390 --> 01:06:43,200
that uh that fate was the offspring of

1639
01:06:49,029 --> 01:06:46,400
amazing and fantastic i mean so that

1640
01:06:49,430 --> 01:06:49,039
as as digest things and for that matter

1641
01:06:58,150 --> 01:06:49,440
uh

1642
01:07:02,710 --> 01:07:01,109
even even magazines like time and

1643
01:07:05,910 --> 01:07:02,720
newsweek are having trouble

1644
01:07:08,549 --> 01:07:05,920
staying in print editions and i i read

1645
01:07:12,150 --> 01:07:08,559
their online editions and frankly

1646
01:07:13,190 --> 01:07:12,160
uh i continued to to publish the para

1647
01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:13,200
ufologists

1648
01:07:19,990 --> 01:07:16,559
off and on into the 1990s but as

1649
01:07:23,190 --> 01:07:20,000
i got into being

1650
01:07:26,789 --> 01:07:23,200
a presence on the internet i could reach

1651
01:07:30,069 --> 01:07:26,799
so many more people so much more quickly

1652
01:07:31,750 --> 01:07:30,079
with so much less physical effort i'm

1653
01:07:32,870 --> 01:07:31,760
not saying the intellectual effort

1654
01:07:36,069 --> 01:07:32,880
suffers but

1655
01:07:39,109 --> 01:07:36,079
the physical effort involved in you know

1656
01:07:42,470 --> 01:07:39,119
collating and i mean at one time it was

1657
01:07:44,390 --> 01:07:42,480
a one-man thing and you

1658
01:07:45,589 --> 01:07:44,400
my father's company unknown to my

1659
01:07:48,150 --> 01:07:45,599
father's company

1660
01:07:50,789 --> 01:07:48,160
was producing the magazine on its big

1661
01:07:53,349 --> 01:07:50,799
mimeograph machines and then i would

1662
01:07:55,109 --> 01:07:53,359
put the pages around the table and spend

1663
01:07:57,029 --> 01:07:55,119
the whole night going around the table

1664
01:07:59,190 --> 01:07:57,039
collating and then stapling

1665
01:08:01,270 --> 01:07:59,200
putting them in envelopes putting the

1666
01:08:03,829 --> 01:08:01,280
stickers on the envelopes or hand

1667
01:08:06,069 --> 01:08:03,839
addressing them send them out and maybe

1668
01:08:07,109 --> 01:08:06,079
maybe i'd reach 300 people at the

1669
01:08:09,829 --> 01:08:07,119
maximum

1670
01:08:11,430 --> 01:08:09,839
i i use the ironing board to pile it up

1671
01:08:13,910 --> 01:08:11,440
you can get like

1672
01:08:16,789 --> 01:08:13,920
10 different sheets on an ironing board

1673
01:08:20,149 --> 01:08:16,799
and then you move on to the couch

1674
01:08:21,269 --> 01:08:20,159
exactly exactly i mean you know i have

1675
01:08:23,669 --> 01:08:21,279
to say this

1676
01:08:25,189 --> 01:08:23,679
i like to read a physical publication i

1677
01:08:27,590 --> 01:08:25,199
have a hard time

1678
01:08:28,390 --> 01:08:27,600
online reading something that holds my

1679
01:08:31,269 --> 01:08:28,400
attention

1680
01:08:34,229 --> 01:08:31,279
now the kindle i like it's the best

1681
01:08:36,070 --> 01:08:34,239
thing i just bought a kindle for 84.

1682
01:08:37,669 --> 01:08:36,080
this thing is marvelous never mind

1683
01:08:39,990 --> 01:08:37,679
movies music

1684
01:08:41,590 --> 01:08:40,000
books half of which are free thanks to

1685
01:08:47,189 --> 01:08:41,600
uh

1686
01:08:49,829 --> 01:08:47,199
even even the kindle book is is easy to

1687
01:08:51,990 --> 01:08:49,839
read i was just going over ufo repeaters

1688
01:08:53,269 --> 01:08:52,000
uh the other night and uh there are no

1689
01:08:54,870 --> 01:08:53,279
errors in the book

1690
01:08:57,189 --> 01:08:54,880
thanks to sean casteel he does an

1691
01:08:58,070 --> 01:08:57,199
excellent job of uh organizing and

1692
01:09:00,070 --> 01:08:58,080
proofreading

1693
01:09:02,149 --> 01:09:00,080
and tim does the cover magnificent

1694
01:09:04,470 --> 01:09:02,159
covers along with bill kern

1695
01:09:05,349 --> 01:09:04,480
and uh so i can read on kindle but i'd

1696
01:09:08,630 --> 01:09:05,359
much rather

1697
01:09:09,590 --> 01:09:08,640
uh also too you know alan when you send

1698
01:09:11,110 --> 01:09:09,600
out 300

1699
01:09:12,550 --> 01:09:11,120
magazines except for the ones that get

1700
01:09:13,590 --> 01:09:12,560
chopped up in the mail or come back

1701
01:09:15,590 --> 01:09:13,600
because the person has

1702
01:09:17,110 --> 01:09:15,600
moved six times in a year you know that

1703
01:09:19,669 --> 01:09:17,120
the publication is being

1704
01:09:21,110 --> 01:09:19,679
read when you send out 5 000 copies of

1705
01:09:23,269 --> 01:09:21,120
your newsletter on the internet

1706
01:09:25,590 --> 01:09:23,279
chances are nobody's paying which is not

1707
01:09:27,189 --> 01:09:25,600
a good thing and and you have no way of

1708
01:09:29,430 --> 01:09:27,199
determining how many people have

1709
01:09:32,229 --> 01:09:29,440
actually opened up your publication and

1710
01:09:34,390 --> 01:09:32,239
got past the first page

1711
01:09:36,070 --> 01:09:34,400
you can't you can know by the feedback

1712
01:09:39,189 --> 01:09:36,080
that you get for example

1713
01:09:41,030 --> 01:09:39,199
if i advertise say a book that you and i

1714
01:09:43,749 --> 01:09:41,040
collaborated on

1715
01:09:44,149 --> 01:09:43,759
the sales of the book goes go up and

1716
01:09:48,070 --> 01:09:44,159
that

1717
01:09:49,669 --> 01:09:48,080
and you can put a counter on a website

1718
01:09:51,349 --> 01:09:49,679
and they're they're all sort of i

1719
01:09:54,470 --> 01:09:51,359
understand that yeah yeah yeah

1720
01:09:54,870 --> 01:09:54,480
on on on wordpress you actually you know

1721
01:09:57,750 --> 01:09:54,880
they

1722
01:09:58,630 --> 01:09:57,760
you have have charts that are available

1723
01:10:01,270 --> 01:09:58,640
only to the

1724
01:10:02,070 --> 01:10:01,280
to the owner of that site that shows you

1725
01:10:04,229 --> 01:10:02,080
how many

1726
01:10:06,630 --> 01:10:04,239
people have viewed it that particular

1727
01:10:08,310 --> 01:10:06,640
day and the entire history going back to

1728
01:10:10,950 --> 01:10:08,320
the first day you were there

1729
01:10:11,669 --> 01:10:10,960
i am i'm going to turn over my internet

1730
01:10:15,270 --> 01:10:11,679
department

1731
01:10:21,590 --> 01:10:19,030
bs brother no offense

1732
01:10:24,470 --> 01:10:21,600
oh zone writer is on what does that mean

1733
01:10:27,189 --> 01:10:24,480
that's uh that's a word in enochian

1734
01:10:28,630 --> 01:10:27,199
zone it's actually the start of a very

1735
01:10:29,270 --> 01:10:28,640
bad word that you don't want to do

1736
01:10:32,390 --> 01:10:29,280
because

1737
01:10:35,830 --> 01:10:32,400
it'll cause storms in seattle

1738
01:10:41,590 --> 01:10:39,350
who's zombies zod rider is the uh

1739
01:10:44,149 --> 01:10:41,600
the the producer of several other

1740
01:10:46,550 --> 01:10:44,159
programs here on the psn radio network

1741
01:10:47,189 --> 01:10:46,560
well he just tuned in and horned in on

1742
01:10:50,550 --> 01:10:47,199
our time

1743
01:10:53,830 --> 01:10:50,560
so well since since

1744
01:10:55,830 --> 01:10:53,840
since we're on uh sunday night uh uh

1745
01:10:57,110 --> 01:10:55,840
when when normally we're on on saturday

1746
01:10:59,990 --> 01:10:57,120
nights i i

1747
01:11:00,950 --> 01:11:00,000
i wonder if zod didn't uh think that

1748
01:11:02,870 --> 01:11:00,960
well

1749
01:11:04,630 --> 01:11:02,880
anybody was on broadcasting right now we

1750
01:11:07,430 --> 01:11:04,640
actually had a caller and we insulted

1751
01:11:10,709 --> 01:11:07,440
him that's not right

1752
01:11:28,229 --> 01:11:10,719
i insulted him it's entirely mia mia

1753
01:11:31,830 --> 01:11:29,750
but then i looked closer and i realized

1754
01:11:34,149 --> 01:11:31,840
it wasn't uh and uh

1755
01:11:35,270 --> 01:11:34,159
so there we go all right let's get on

1756
01:11:38,709 --> 01:11:35,280
with it here now

1757
01:11:41,030 --> 01:11:38,719
uh the uh the conference that

1758
01:11:42,790 --> 01:11:41,040
we could talk about that never was was

1759
01:11:45,189 --> 01:11:42,800
of course the uh the one that

1760
01:11:45,990 --> 01:11:45,199
took place uh was supposed to take place

1761
01:11:49,430 --> 01:11:46,000
the week of

1762
01:11:50,070 --> 01:11:49,440
9 11. and that was uh rick was that to

1763
01:11:53,270 --> 01:11:50,080
be in

1764
01:11:55,189 --> 01:11:53,280
houston austin or somewhere in texas i

1765
01:11:58,709 --> 01:11:55,199
believe it was san antonio

1766
01:12:02,229 --> 01:11:58,719
san antonio that was smiles louis

1767
01:12:03,430 --> 01:12:02,239
yes he had done a great job actually of

1768
01:12:06,950 --> 01:12:03,440
um

1769
01:12:09,990 --> 01:12:06,960
organizing the event yeah and then

1770
01:12:11,830 --> 01:12:10,000
the catastrophe struck and uh

1771
01:12:13,430 --> 01:12:11,840
i think the the conference of course was

1772
01:12:15,270 --> 01:12:13,440
called off because at that point

1773
01:12:16,790 --> 01:12:15,280
you couldn't even get anywhere on a

1774
01:12:19,189 --> 01:12:16,800
plane if you you wanted to

1775
01:12:21,270 --> 01:12:19,199
so was there any was there other any

1776
01:12:23,189 --> 01:12:21,280
other conference that had a uh

1777
01:12:24,870 --> 01:12:23,199
a disaster along that line where it was

1778
01:12:25,350 --> 01:12:24,880
canceled at the last moment or something

1779
01:12:28,630 --> 01:12:25,360
went on

1780
01:12:31,590 --> 01:12:28,640
well there was uh i believe it was one

1781
01:12:33,990 --> 01:12:31,600
uh in the in the 80s when we had the air

1782
01:12:35,430 --> 01:12:34,000
traffic controllers go out on strike and

1783
01:12:38,229 --> 01:12:35,440
there was talk of you know

1784
01:12:39,750 --> 01:12:38,239
a massive airline shutdowns and whatnot

1785
01:12:41,830 --> 01:12:39,760
until reagan you know you know

1786
01:12:43,510 --> 01:12:41,840
forced them all back to work or whatever

1787
01:12:45,110 --> 01:12:43,520
that i think that was like green bay

1788
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:45,120
wisconsin

1789
01:12:49,510 --> 01:12:47,679
and was in the late 70s or no hadn't

1790
01:12:50,870 --> 01:12:49,520
been in the 80s of course if reagan did

1791
01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:50,880
it

1792
01:12:56,070 --> 01:12:54,000
yeah yeah so that was the closest we

1793
01:12:57,830 --> 01:12:56,080
ever came there were really no disasters

1794
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:57,840
or anything other than

1795
01:13:01,030 --> 01:13:00,239
september 11th but you know it was

1796
01:13:02,390 --> 01:13:01,040
backing up

1797
01:13:04,470 --> 01:13:02,400
going back you know we were talking

1798
01:13:07,669 --> 01:13:04,480
about the organization and the

1799
01:13:12,310 --> 01:13:07,679
the closed sessions versus the open

1800
01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:12,320
sessions okay and i just just

1801
01:13:15,510 --> 01:13:14,400
one of the things i've always thought is

1802
01:13:19,030 --> 01:13:15,520
the reason

1803
01:13:22,790 --> 01:13:19,040
that the convention never really

1804
01:13:25,430 --> 01:13:22,800
took off like the mufon symposia have

1805
01:13:27,750 --> 01:13:25,440
is because it was not held by a you know

1806
01:13:31,430 --> 01:13:27,760
a monolithic organization

1807
01:13:32,709 --> 01:13:31,440
um we we had the closed sessions which

1808
01:13:34,630 --> 01:13:32,719
was supposed to be

1809
01:13:35,910 --> 01:13:34,640
for the delegates and the delegates were

1810
01:13:37,990 --> 01:13:35,920
it was supposed it was a loose

1811
01:13:40,070 --> 01:13:38,000
confederation of people

1812
01:13:41,350 --> 01:13:40,080
and we were supposed to be cooperating

1813
01:13:43,110 --> 01:13:41,360
and working together and

1814
01:13:44,630 --> 01:13:43,120
of course that never really happens you

1815
01:13:46,229 --> 01:13:44,640
know everybody has their

1816
01:13:47,750 --> 01:13:46,239
their own thing they want to do their

1817
01:13:47,990 --> 01:13:47,760
own thing their own publication their

1818
01:13:50,229 --> 01:13:48,000
own

1819
01:13:51,990 --> 01:13:50,239
well and also two people people came and

1820
01:13:55,030 --> 01:13:52,000
went uh you know on a regular

1821
01:13:58,390 --> 01:13:55,040
basis uh we here we three

1822
01:14:00,229 --> 01:13:58,400
uh men here have uh uh uh

1823
01:14:02,070 --> 01:14:00,239
stuck with it well i'm thinking of dead

1824
01:14:04,630 --> 01:14:02,080
people who's not here but uh

1825
01:14:06,310 --> 01:14:04,640
we we've stuck with it i mean uh we are

1826
01:14:09,669 --> 01:14:06,320
the the mighty uh you know

1827
01:14:11,910 --> 01:14:09,679
uh trio here who have uh uh said that

1828
01:14:14,070 --> 01:14:11,920
we're going to fight this to the end

1829
01:14:15,830 --> 01:14:14,080
and and certainly we are proving you

1830
01:14:18,310 --> 01:14:15,840
that uh that point

1831
01:14:20,630 --> 01:14:18,320
and um i do you think this will be a

1832
01:14:24,310 --> 01:14:20,640
regular uh

1833
01:14:27,669 --> 01:14:24,320
conference uh it it it certainly

1834
01:14:28,229 --> 01:14:27,679
was not planned to be uh initially it

1835
01:14:31,270 --> 01:14:28,239
was just

1836
01:14:31,669 --> 01:14:31,280
supposed to be a gathering of some of

1837
01:14:36,950 --> 01:14:31,679
the

1838
01:14:38,470 --> 01:14:36,960
that aren't dead that are still alive

1839
01:14:39,110 --> 01:14:38,480
yeah they're still reasonable although

1840
01:14:42,229 --> 01:14:39,120
the dead

1841
01:14:43,430 --> 01:14:42,239
are welcome yes really yeah

1842
01:14:45,270 --> 01:14:43,440
that would be that would be at the

1843
01:14:48,870 --> 01:14:45,280
closed session alan

1844
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:48,880
yeah the the very closed session

1845
01:14:52,790 --> 01:14:51,600
uh very close coming in by ouija board

1846
01:14:56,229 --> 01:14:52,800
you know and uh

1847
01:14:58,070 --> 01:14:56,239
we can talk to jim and gray and

1848
01:14:59,590 --> 01:14:58,080
they they'd love it you know if we said

1849
01:15:04,630 --> 01:14:59,600
oh we i'm

1850
01:15:11,030 --> 01:15:07,750
50 shades of grey barker there you go

1851
01:15:11,750 --> 01:15:11,040
yes well uh one piece of trivia and i

1852
01:15:13,270 --> 01:15:11,760
want to

1853
01:15:14,870 --> 01:15:13,280
you know before we run out of time i

1854
01:15:16,709 --> 01:15:14,880
want to discuss what happened to the

1855
01:15:18,070 --> 01:15:16,719
convention because i think we were very

1856
01:15:21,430 --> 01:15:18,080
successful and it was

1857
01:15:24,390 --> 01:15:21,440
is still the longest running convention

1858
01:15:25,910 --> 01:15:24,400
ever you know annual convention piece of

1859
01:15:28,310 --> 01:15:25,920
trivia

1860
01:15:30,870 --> 01:15:28,320
do you remember where we had the banquet

1861
01:15:31,830 --> 01:15:30,880
at the 1980 the second one we had in new

1862
01:15:35,750 --> 01:15:31,840
york city

1863
01:15:38,870 --> 01:15:35,760
where our banquet was held yes i do

1864
01:15:42,630 --> 01:15:38,880
yes i do yeah and how does it relate to

1865
01:15:48,870 --> 01:15:45,990
windows on the world yes we were at the

1866
01:15:50,310 --> 01:15:48,880
top of the uh the the restaurant at the

1867
01:15:52,790 --> 01:15:50,320
top of the twin towers

1868
01:15:53,750 --> 01:15:52,800
and beautiful view of the city that no

1869
01:15:56,950 --> 01:15:53,760
one will ever see

1870
01:15:59,910 --> 01:15:56,960
again uh thanks to our our dear arabic

1871
01:16:02,310 --> 01:15:59,920
uh buddies over there who we've been at

1872
01:16:03,910 --> 01:16:02,320
war with now for the last 3 000 years

1873
01:16:07,189 --> 01:16:03,920
apparently

1874
01:16:10,070 --> 01:16:07,199
with minimal success but uh there's so

1875
01:16:13,110 --> 01:16:10,080
many of them to kill i don't

1876
01:16:15,270 --> 01:16:13,120
never mind i didn't i disavow

1877
01:16:16,950 --> 01:16:15,280
all the other people who would never say

1878
01:16:20,310 --> 01:16:16,960
any such thing and

1879
01:16:22,390 --> 01:16:20,320
it's just my my my personal

1880
01:16:24,550 --> 01:16:22,400
biases i can't go to that restaurant

1881
01:16:26,550 --> 01:16:24,560
anymore and i'm furious about it

1882
01:16:31,110 --> 01:16:26,560
but be that is it me eddie i'm glad you

1883
01:16:37,189 --> 01:16:34,229
huh betty hill was there

1884
01:16:38,149 --> 01:16:37,199
yes betty hill was there and uh yeah uh

1885
01:16:40,310 --> 01:16:38,159
there were there's an

1886
01:16:42,870 --> 01:16:40,320
unknown little feature i was there that

1887
01:16:45,189 --> 01:16:42,880
was at the very end of my marriage to

1888
01:16:46,070 --> 01:16:45,199
uh my first wife we won't mention her

1889
01:16:48,070 --> 01:16:46,080
name to

1890
01:16:49,830 --> 01:16:48,080
so that it doesn't embarrass her we're

1891
01:16:52,149 --> 01:16:49,840
on good terms but

1892
01:16:54,070 --> 01:16:52,159
uh it seems that while we were having a

1893
01:16:56,149 --> 01:16:54,080
convention in one hotel at a hotel

1894
01:16:58,149 --> 01:16:56,159
across the street ronald reagan was

1895
01:17:01,830 --> 01:16:58,159
campaigning for president

1896
01:17:04,390 --> 01:17:01,840
so she being an old campaigner for peace

1897
01:17:06,709 --> 01:17:04,400
opened the the window in our high hotel

1898
01:17:10,709 --> 01:17:06,719
room and flashed ronnie

1899
01:17:12,709 --> 01:17:10,719
that was a little unknown part of the

1900
01:17:15,189 --> 01:17:12,719
convention but i thought that it was

1901
01:17:16,229 --> 01:17:15,199
worth mentioning in this historical

1902
01:17:18,310 --> 01:17:16,239
context

1903
01:17:20,149 --> 01:17:18,320
let me mention briefly about the end of

1904
01:17:23,750 --> 01:17:20,159
the convention because

1905
01:17:24,310 --> 01:17:23,760
i think what happened was jim mosley who

1906
01:17:26,950 --> 01:17:24,320
did an

1907
01:17:29,350 --> 01:17:26,960
excellent job of being the permanent

1908
01:17:31,110 --> 01:17:29,360
chairman for many years decided to give

1909
01:17:33,350 --> 01:17:31,120
it up uh he

1910
01:17:35,030 --> 01:17:33,360
would have eventually i'm sure time and

1911
01:17:38,070 --> 01:17:35,040
time being what they are

1912
01:17:42,470 --> 01:17:38,080
but he trusted some

1913
01:17:46,310 --> 01:17:42,480
people in in l.a and they s

1914
01:17:48,790 --> 01:17:46,320
can i say the word screw the hell yeah

1915
01:17:49,750 --> 01:17:48,800
they screwed us go out ahead they

1916
01:17:51,510 --> 01:17:49,760
screwed us

1917
01:17:53,189 --> 01:17:51,520
royally because they said they were

1918
01:17:53,669 --> 01:17:53,199
gonna you know continue the convention

1919
01:17:55,910 --> 01:17:53,679
they did

1920
01:17:58,149 --> 01:17:55,920
one convention and then they just

1921
01:17:59,990 --> 01:17:58,159
abruptly and unceremoniously

1922
01:18:02,550 --> 01:18:00,000
dropped it i knew that was going to

1923
01:18:05,350 --> 01:18:02,560
happen when jim said he was doing that

1924
01:18:07,270 --> 01:18:05,360
i um it was the second time jim made

1925
01:18:08,070 --> 01:18:07,280
noises about giving it up for the first

1926
01:18:09,669 --> 01:18:08,080
time

1927
01:18:12,229 --> 01:18:09,679
i took the convention that year because

1928
01:18:15,510 --> 01:18:12,239
he called me i was

1929
01:18:17,110 --> 01:18:15,520
down in augusta georgia uh writing

1930
01:18:18,950 --> 01:18:17,120
secret site for the euphenots at the

1931
01:18:20,470 --> 01:18:18,960
time and he called me and he said you

1932
01:18:21,990 --> 01:18:20,480
know i'm thinking about not having a

1933
01:18:24,310 --> 01:18:22,000
convention next year

1934
01:18:25,030 --> 01:18:24,320
so that's when i called sam and hilly

1935
01:18:28,149 --> 01:18:25,040
and the

1936
01:18:29,830 --> 01:18:28,159
members of the occult group that i was

1937
01:18:32,070 --> 01:18:29,840
involved in in atlanta and i said hey

1938
01:18:33,910 --> 01:18:32,080
can we put together a convention because

1939
01:18:37,110 --> 01:18:33,920
i don't want this to end so that was

1940
01:18:39,669 --> 01:18:37,120
where the 1995 convention happened

1941
01:18:40,310 --> 01:18:39,679
but i didn't hear about the deal with uh

1942
01:18:42,709 --> 01:18:40,320
people

1943
01:18:43,669 --> 01:18:42,719
in l.a it's actually one person is it

1944
01:18:47,750 --> 01:18:43,679
not but uh

1945
01:18:50,470 --> 01:18:47,760
yes but in any case

1946
01:18:52,790 --> 01:18:50,480
it didn't end because it had petered out

1947
01:18:56,070 --> 01:18:52,800
or had lost its charm or had

1948
01:18:58,709 --> 01:18:56,080
it it just simply was taken over by

1949
01:19:02,390 --> 01:18:58,719
someone who was just not part of the

1950
01:19:05,830 --> 01:19:02,400
the historical context of it and uh

1951
01:19:08,550 --> 01:19:05,840
after what was it 40 some odd years

1952
01:19:09,430 --> 01:19:08,560
ran for 40 years it had a 40-year run

1953
01:19:12,310 --> 01:19:09,440
yeah that

1954
01:19:14,229 --> 01:19:12,320
it just stopped it might yeah be

1955
01:19:17,270 --> 01:19:14,239
continuing even now had it

1956
01:19:18,950 --> 01:19:17,280
been entrusted to someone who was

1957
01:19:20,790 --> 01:19:18,960
one of those people who would you know

1958
01:19:24,310 --> 01:19:20,800
keep it going uh tell

1959
01:19:27,110 --> 01:19:24,320
death do them part and uh um that's

1960
01:19:27,510 --> 01:19:27,120
uh that's just that's one of the reasons

1961
01:19:33,990 --> 01:19:27,520
uh

1962
01:19:37,110 --> 01:19:34,000
you did it was not backed up by a large

1963
01:19:39,189 --> 01:19:37,120
organization such as mufon or you know

1964
01:19:40,630 --> 01:19:39,199
yeah well is that an argument before or

1965
01:19:42,470 --> 01:19:40,640
against mufon though

1966
01:19:44,709 --> 01:19:42,480
no no not an argument for against me

1967
01:19:48,310 --> 01:19:44,719
font but it it it's a

1968
01:19:50,709 --> 01:19:48,320
a large organization is much better able

1969
01:19:51,669 --> 01:19:50,719
to have an annual convention simply

1970
01:19:53,430 --> 01:19:51,679
because they have

1971
01:19:55,189 --> 01:19:53,440
members you know in different parts of

1972
01:19:56,229 --> 01:19:55,199
the country who are willing or foolish

1973
01:19:59,430 --> 01:19:56,239
enough or

1974
01:20:02,229 --> 01:19:59,440
crazy enough to shell out all the money

1975
01:20:04,149 --> 01:20:02,239
uh to get speakers and etc etc and put

1976
01:20:07,430 --> 01:20:04,159
together the big show

1977
01:20:11,030 --> 01:20:07,440
and uh that's that's i think where the

1978
01:20:13,830 --> 01:20:11,040
the the national ufo conference you know

1979
01:20:16,950 --> 01:20:13,840
it is a monumental amount of work i mean

1980
01:20:20,790 --> 01:20:20,070
is you really need a staff in order to

1981
01:20:23,110 --> 01:20:20,800
do it now

1982
01:20:24,070 --> 01:20:23,120
i did it on a on a regular basis in

1983
01:20:26,790 --> 01:20:24,080
several uh

1984
01:20:29,110 --> 01:20:26,800
uh states i did at the course of san

1985
01:20:32,149 --> 01:20:29,120
diego

1986
01:20:33,830 --> 01:20:32,159
yes yes absolutely and you really you

1987
01:20:36,950 --> 01:20:33,840
really need a staff now

1988
01:20:39,030 --> 01:20:36,960
my problem is my staff has got got older

1989
01:20:40,550 --> 01:20:39,040
and some of them or quite a few of them

1990
01:20:43,830 --> 01:20:40,560
actually have gone

1991
01:20:44,550 --> 01:20:43,840
on to the other side and and so it was

1992
01:20:46,629 --> 01:20:44,560
just

1993
01:20:47,910 --> 01:20:46,639
since we've gotten away from actual

1994
01:20:49,990 --> 01:20:47,920
meetings not only

1995
01:20:52,390 --> 01:20:50,000
as far as the yearly conference goes but

1996
01:20:54,709 --> 01:20:52,400
from localized meetings uh even

1997
01:20:56,550 --> 01:20:54,719
uh it's harder to find people who are

1998
01:20:59,669 --> 01:20:56,560
not who are available

1999
01:21:00,950 --> 01:20:59,679
to spend their time basically for free

2000
01:21:03,030 --> 01:21:00,960
to donate their time to

2001
01:21:04,229 --> 01:21:03,040
to be involved in something uh like this

2002
01:21:06,550 --> 01:21:04,239
that is true it's

2003
01:21:07,750 --> 01:21:06,560
it is so great to see that this is

2004
01:21:11,830 --> 01:21:07,760
getting back together

2005
01:21:13,830 --> 01:21:11,840
i am going to get myself on a bus

2006
01:21:16,550 --> 01:21:13,840
and head for cleveland i might do it

2007
01:21:20,229 --> 01:21:19,430
you'll be a bit early but that's fine

2008
01:21:23,189 --> 01:21:20,239
i'll help you

2009
01:21:25,350 --> 01:21:23,199
i'll i'll help senate i'll help help set

2010
01:21:29,910 --> 01:21:25,360
the chairs

2011
01:21:33,430 --> 01:21:32,629
but but all seriousness aside here

2012
01:21:36,629 --> 01:21:33,440
anyway if

2013
01:21:39,030 --> 01:21:36,639
if we should if we should uh you know

2014
01:21:39,910 --> 01:21:39,040
have another one and it's that's not

2015
01:21:42,070 --> 01:21:39,920
that

2016
01:21:44,390 --> 01:21:42,080
we did not intend to make this an

2017
01:21:46,470 --> 01:21:44,400
another annual event or to re

2018
01:21:47,750 --> 01:21:46,480
you know to resurrect the old national

2019
01:21:50,310 --> 01:21:47,760
ufo conference

2020
01:21:51,189 --> 01:21:50,320
but i think it's it's an opportunity at

2021
01:21:54,229 --> 01:21:51,199
least

2022
01:21:57,270 --> 01:21:54,239
to have some serious discussion

2023
01:21:58,950 --> 01:21:57,280
about the state of the ufo field and you

2024
01:22:01,990 --> 01:21:58,960
know some of the stuff that we've been

2025
01:22:03,430 --> 01:22:02,000
you know talking about uh tonight and a

2026
01:22:04,390 --> 01:22:03,440
lot of stuff that we haven't talked

2027
01:22:06,470 --> 01:22:04,400
about tonight

2028
01:22:08,070 --> 01:22:06,480
it's it's a good if in the beginning

2029
01:22:09,669 --> 01:22:08,080
this is how it all started

2030
01:22:11,350 --> 01:22:09,679
there were these all diverse people

2031
01:22:12,629 --> 01:22:11,360
getting together and

2032
01:22:14,550 --> 01:22:12,639
what are you doing well what are you

2033
01:22:16,390 --> 01:22:14,560
doing what do you think and that's the

2034
01:22:18,629 --> 01:22:16,400
real fun of the whole field

2035
01:22:20,310 --> 01:22:18,639
staying up all night and and talking

2036
01:22:20,950 --> 01:22:20,320
shop and this is essentially what we're

2037
01:22:22,470 --> 01:22:20,960
going to do

2038
01:22:24,310 --> 01:22:22,480
we're not going to have an audience that

2039
01:22:26,550 --> 01:22:24,320
we have to please we don't have to have

2040
01:22:28,070 --> 01:22:26,560
oh you're on at two o'clock and you're

2041
01:22:31,750 --> 01:22:28,080
on at three o'clock

2042
01:22:32,229 --> 01:22:31,760
um we can all do our own thing and uh if

2043
01:22:36,550 --> 01:22:32,239
we

2044
01:22:38,229 --> 01:22:36,560
i'll help you with this project you

2045
01:22:39,910 --> 01:22:38,239
helped me with that project it's going

2046
01:22:41,189 --> 01:22:39,920
to work out for the good who knows maybe

2047
01:22:42,950 --> 01:22:41,199
there will be others

2048
01:22:44,870 --> 01:22:42,960
but at least i think it's a it's an

2049
01:22:47,910 --> 01:22:44,880
opportunity for folks to get together

2050
01:22:51,510 --> 01:22:47,920
and and discuss the state of the ufo

2051
01:22:54,629 --> 01:22:51,520
field today i think i learned more

2052
01:22:57,590 --> 01:22:54,639
about what the subject is really

2053
01:22:59,430 --> 01:22:57,600
all about at the delegate sessions over

2054
01:23:01,110 --> 01:22:59,440
the years i we were recording them

2055
01:23:02,470 --> 01:23:01,120
there's always a recorder in the room

2056
01:23:04,550 --> 01:23:02,480
but i don't know if any of those

2057
01:23:06,950 --> 01:23:04,560
recordings still exist

2058
01:23:08,709 --> 01:23:06,960
i learned more there that i've learned

2059
01:23:11,910 --> 01:23:08,719
from any book on the subject

2060
01:23:14,709 --> 01:23:11,920
or or or or anything else other than

2061
01:23:17,189 --> 01:23:14,719
direct field investigations uh you know

2062
01:23:20,390 --> 01:23:17,199
that i that i've participated in

2063
01:23:21,830 --> 01:23:20,400
i have often said on radio and tv

2064
01:23:23,830 --> 01:23:21,840
programs when they say well the air

2065
01:23:27,189 --> 01:23:23,840
force knows the secret i said

2066
01:23:29,830 --> 01:23:27,199
i'm pretty sure i know more about

2067
01:23:31,750 --> 01:23:29,840
what the ufo phenomena is really about

2068
01:23:34,950 --> 01:23:31,760
than the air force ever did

2069
01:23:35,669 --> 01:23:34,960
and when i say that the context isn't

2070
01:23:38,310 --> 01:23:35,679
some

2071
01:23:40,229 --> 01:23:38,320
vast knowledge that i have but from the

2072
01:23:42,229 --> 01:23:40,239
back and forth that took place at the

2073
01:23:44,629 --> 01:23:42,239
delegate sessions at the annual

2074
01:23:47,189 --> 01:23:44,639
conventions for so many years

2075
01:23:48,310 --> 01:23:47,199
so i i think that kind of you know

2076
01:23:51,709 --> 01:23:48,320
open-ended

2077
01:23:54,950 --> 01:23:51,719
uh not some kind of uh uh uh

2078
01:23:56,790 --> 01:23:54,960
ritualized uh uh gathering of people who

2079
01:23:59,189 --> 01:23:56,800
all believe the same thing you know

2080
01:24:02,870 --> 01:23:59,199
singing to the choir type of thing

2081
01:24:06,790 --> 01:24:02,880
uh is is is is the essence

2082
01:24:09,110 --> 01:24:06,800
of of what a living ufology

2083
01:24:09,830 --> 01:24:09,120
needs to be about and i'm hoping that

2084
01:24:13,189 --> 01:24:09,840
some

2085
01:24:15,750 --> 01:24:13,199
you know next generation ufologist will

2086
01:24:17,590 --> 01:24:15,760
show up and document it or be inspired

2087
01:24:18,950 --> 01:24:17,600
and maybe do something on their own that

2088
01:24:22,229 --> 01:24:18,960
will continue

2089
01:24:24,470 --> 01:24:22,239
that kind of interplay for the future

2090
01:24:25,350 --> 01:24:24,480
until this thing gets solved and i think

2091
01:24:28,629 --> 01:24:25,360
that once they

2092
01:24:30,950 --> 01:24:28,639
once we get past the uh the the false

2093
01:24:31,350 --> 01:24:30,960
dichotomy that i talk about i think that

2094
01:24:33,350 --> 01:24:31,360
uh

2095
01:24:35,510 --> 01:24:33,360
it will be solved or solved to the

2096
01:24:37,189 --> 01:24:35,520
extent that it can be

2097
01:24:38,550 --> 01:24:37,199
and i don't think you'll i don't think

2098
01:24:41,510 --> 01:24:38,560
you'll ever

2099
01:24:42,149 --> 01:24:41,520
be able to solve this because people

2100
01:24:45,189 --> 01:24:42,159
have such

2101
01:24:46,070 --> 01:24:45,199
diverse opinions on this that some

2102
01:24:47,910 --> 01:24:46,080
people have

2103
01:24:49,590 --> 01:24:47,920
some thinking that would be totally

2104
01:24:52,790 --> 01:24:49,600
radically different than ours

2105
01:24:55,830 --> 01:24:52,800
and they are not about to change their

2106
01:24:56,709 --> 01:24:55,840
opinion now i hate to cut this short but

2107
01:24:59,110 --> 01:24:56,719
uh

2108
01:25:00,550 --> 01:24:59,120
tim who has so graciously produced and

2109
01:25:03,590 --> 01:25:00,560
engineered our show

2110
01:25:06,550 --> 01:25:03,600
it has to segue to his own

2111
01:25:07,350 --> 01:25:06,560
program uh the outer edge which will be

2112
01:25:10,629 --> 01:25:07,360
coming on

2113
01:25:13,350 --> 01:25:10,639
uh at the midnight uh eastern

2114
01:25:14,149 --> 01:25:13,360
time here so i do want to go one more

2115
01:25:17,590 --> 01:25:14,159
time

2116
01:25:18,629 --> 01:25:17,600
around the table and rick why don't you

2117
01:25:21,590 --> 01:25:18,639
just start out

2118
01:25:23,270 --> 01:25:21,600
and tell us about this forthcoming event

2119
01:25:25,270 --> 01:25:23,280
how can people learn about it

2120
01:25:26,709 --> 01:25:25,280
where is it going to be when is it going

2121
01:25:30,149 --> 01:25:26,719
to happen

2122
01:25:31,430 --> 01:25:30,159
and uh who's going to be there well it's

2123
01:25:34,870 --> 01:25:31,440
going to be held

2124
01:25:39,030 --> 01:25:34,880
as i said the weekend of of

2125
01:25:40,790 --> 01:25:39,040
june 19th 20th and 21st this coming june

2126
01:25:42,870 --> 01:25:40,800
and it's going to be held at the crown

2127
01:25:45,430 --> 01:25:42,880
plaza cleveland airport

2128
01:25:48,390 --> 01:25:45,440
hotel which is on angle road middleburg

2129
01:25:52,070 --> 01:25:50,950
basically there's no fee to attend uh

2130
01:25:55,669 --> 01:25:52,080
it's

2131
01:25:58,629 --> 01:25:55,679
you come and we have we're going to have

2132
01:26:00,550 --> 01:25:58,639
like a little things going on a cop

2133
01:26:01,669 --> 01:26:00,560
cocktail reception on friday night and

2134
01:26:03,189 --> 01:26:01,679
then saturday we're going to have

2135
01:26:04,709 --> 01:26:03,199
discussions all day

2136
01:26:06,310 --> 01:26:04,719
pretty much what we you know what we're

2137
01:26:06,709 --> 01:26:06,320
going to talk about what we want to talk

2138
01:26:08,629 --> 01:26:06,719
about

2139
01:26:10,310 --> 01:26:08,639
then that evening there's going to be a

2140
01:26:11,910 --> 01:26:10,320
special meeting of the cleveland ufology

2141
01:26:12,550 --> 01:26:11,920
project that we're all going to carpool

2142
01:26:14,229 --> 01:26:12,560
through

2143
01:26:16,310 --> 01:26:14,239
and they they promise that we're going

2144
01:26:19,510 --> 01:26:16,320
to have a nifty program

2145
01:26:22,709 --> 01:26:19,520
now alex what is the the wordpress um

2146
01:26:23,750 --> 01:26:22,719
address for people to to to access the

2147
01:26:26,310 --> 01:26:23,760
page and get all the

2148
01:26:28,070 --> 01:26:26,320
the information on the internet gosh i

2149
01:26:29,830 --> 01:26:28,080
don't know but the best way to do that

2150
01:26:30,390 --> 01:26:29,840
is what i you know they always say what

2151
01:26:33,510 --> 01:26:30,400
do you want

2152
01:26:34,390 --> 01:26:33,520
wanna on radio programs and podcasts and

2153
01:26:36,709 --> 01:26:34,400
stuff they say well

2154
01:26:38,149 --> 01:26:36,719
well where what site can we go to i said

2155
01:26:38,950 --> 01:26:38,159
i've been on the internet since before

2156
01:26:40,870 --> 01:26:38,960
it was the internet

2157
01:26:42,470 --> 01:26:40,880
google my name alan greenfield well in

2158
01:26:44,950 --> 01:26:42,480
this case google

2159
01:26:46,870 --> 01:26:44,960
national ufo conference reunion and

2160
01:26:50,070 --> 01:26:46,880
it'll give you the pages

2161
01:26:51,750 --> 01:26:50,080
okay there you go and uh that way i

2162
01:26:54,550 --> 01:26:51,760
don't have to remember the long

2163
01:26:56,229 --> 01:26:54,560
wordpress sticklock that you rake out

2164
01:26:58,229 --> 01:26:56,239
outside of the conference

2165
01:26:59,669 --> 01:26:58,239
uh how do people find out about your

2166
01:27:03,030 --> 01:26:59,679
newsletter

2167
01:27:04,629 --> 01:27:03,040
facebook right yeah yeah well

2168
01:27:06,629 --> 01:27:04,639
you're going to have to go to get what

2169
01:27:08,790 --> 01:27:06,639
they used to call a stamp

2170
01:27:10,310 --> 01:27:08,800
and one of those funny things called an

2171
01:27:13,189 --> 01:27:10,320
envelope and some

2172
01:27:14,950 --> 01:27:13,199
paper and i'll give you if if people

2173
01:27:16,149 --> 01:27:14,960
want a sample copy i'll send them a

2174
01:27:18,709 --> 01:27:16,159
sample copy

2175
01:27:20,070 --> 01:27:18,719
can i give the address it's the best

2176
01:27:23,270 --> 01:27:20,080
news

2177
01:27:26,870 --> 01:27:23,280
yeah yeah 377 race

2178
01:27:30,830 --> 01:27:26,880
race street and that's uh

2179
01:27:33,350 --> 01:27:30,840
berea the erea ohio

2180
01:27:35,669 --> 01:27:33,360
44017 and that the publication is called

2181
01:27:38,470 --> 01:27:35,679
flying saucer digest so just send it to

2182
01:27:41,350 --> 01:27:38,480
flying saucer digest or fst

2183
01:27:43,270 --> 01:27:41,360
tell you you know tell me you heard us

2184
01:27:44,070 --> 01:27:43,280
here tonight and i'll send you sample

2185
01:27:46,550 --> 01:27:44,080
copy

2186
01:27:47,669 --> 01:27:46,560
well rick you have done a tremendous job

2187
01:27:49,990 --> 01:27:47,679
over the years

2188
01:27:51,590 --> 01:27:50,000
and you can do continue to do a

2189
01:27:54,550 --> 01:27:51,600
tremendous job of

2190
01:27:56,629 --> 01:27:54,560
awakening and enlightening the public

2191
01:28:00,070 --> 01:27:56,639
not that some of them deserve it

2192
01:28:03,030 --> 01:28:00,080
but you have done a great job and you

2193
01:28:04,390 --> 01:28:03,040
bishop greenfield uh outside

2194
01:28:07,590 --> 01:28:04,400
contributing yes

2195
01:28:08,870 --> 01:28:07,600
outside of contributing a very great

2196
01:28:11,990 --> 01:28:08,880
section of the book

2197
01:28:12,390 --> 01:28:12,000
april of angel spells which continues to

2198
01:28:15,110 --> 01:28:12,400
sell

2199
01:28:16,709 --> 01:28:15,120
among on a monumental level on amazon

2200
01:28:20,709 --> 01:28:16,719
that's angel spells

2201
01:28:23,270 --> 01:28:20,719
by tim beckley and sean castillo and

2202
01:28:23,990 --> 01:28:23,280
alan greenfield what else have you got

2203
01:28:27,430 --> 01:28:24,000
in your

2204
01:28:29,430 --> 01:28:27,440
back pocket in my back pocket let's see

2205
01:28:31,669 --> 01:28:29,440
well i'll give you that same thing

2206
01:28:33,550 --> 01:28:31,679
uh google my name because there's always

2207
01:28:37,950 --> 01:28:33,560
something going on it's

2208
01:28:39,669 --> 01:28:37,960
a-l-l-e-n allen greenfield

2209
01:28:41,430 --> 01:28:39,679
g-r-e-e-n-f-i-e-l-d

2210
01:28:43,750 --> 01:28:41,440
and there will be thousands of things

2211
01:28:46,229 --> 01:28:43,760
but the first 10 or 15 or so

2212
01:28:47,189 --> 01:28:46,239
will be stuff that i do currently i also

2213
01:28:50,470 --> 01:28:47,199
have a book out

2214
01:28:51,350 --> 01:28:50,480
on a seemingly unrelated subject unless

2215
01:28:53,910 --> 01:28:51,360
you've read

2216
01:28:56,229 --> 01:28:53,920
secret my book secret rituals of the men

2217
01:28:59,510 --> 01:28:56,239
in black which is available as a free

2218
01:29:02,629 --> 01:28:59,520
free pdf online just google that

2219
01:29:06,070 --> 01:29:02,639
uh the complete right

2220
01:29:10,310 --> 01:29:06,080
of memphis which is also on

2221
01:29:13,030 --> 01:29:10,320
amazon and is selling fantastically well

2222
01:29:14,870 --> 01:29:13,040
and i would suggest that anyone who

2223
01:29:19,430 --> 01:29:14,880
wants to look more deeply

2224
01:29:22,629 --> 01:29:19,440
into this mystery from differing angles

2225
01:29:24,629 --> 01:29:22,639
will find that if they read that along

2226
01:29:25,510 --> 01:29:24,639
with angel spells especially the part

2227
01:29:27,350 --> 01:29:25,520
where i can tell

2228
01:29:28,709 --> 01:29:27,360
i tell them in the back of the book how

2229
01:29:31,990 --> 01:29:28,719
to predict

2230
01:29:33,110 --> 01:29:32,000
the next ufo case and be there waiting

2231
01:29:35,669 --> 01:29:33,120
with your camera

2232
01:29:36,229 --> 01:29:35,679
if you only take the trouble to do so

2233
01:29:39,830 --> 01:29:36,239
then

2234
01:29:42,470 --> 01:29:39,840
um you will probably be uh

2235
01:29:44,790 --> 01:29:42,480
a whole new person in terms of these

2236
01:29:48,629 --> 01:29:44,800
mysteries that we grapple with

2237
01:29:51,990 --> 01:29:48,639
and last but not least over in jersey

2238
01:29:53,350 --> 01:29:52,000
city which is a short swim from the new

2239
01:29:56,870 --> 01:29:53,360
york side of the hudson

2240
01:30:00,790 --> 01:29:56,880
river you try it yeah

2241
01:30:04,629 --> 01:30:00,800
well carla anderson and

2242
01:30:07,750 --> 01:30:04,639
the owner and proprietor and chief

2243
01:30:08,310 --> 01:30:07,760
hairstylist at balance what's on your

2244
01:30:09,830 --> 01:30:08,320
agenda

2245
01:30:11,590 --> 01:30:09,840
and carla i'm going to try to get you to

2246
01:30:13,350 --> 01:30:11,600
come to cleveland with me

2247
01:30:14,790 --> 01:30:13,360
because that will increase that will

2248
01:30:16,629 --> 01:30:14,800
increase the uh

2249
01:30:19,430 --> 01:30:16,639
the audience people will want to come

2250
01:30:21,189 --> 01:30:19,440
and meet you and dino the dinosaur

2251
01:30:22,709 --> 01:30:21,199
yeah i thought the guests were very good

2252
01:30:25,910 --> 01:30:22,719
tonight i learned a lot

2253
01:30:28,790 --> 01:30:25,920
as usual on the unraveling the secrets

2254
01:30:30,550 --> 01:30:28,800
very stimulating conversations tonight

2255
01:30:32,229 --> 01:30:30,560
you guys really go way back it's it's

2256
01:30:33,990 --> 01:30:32,239
very impressive

2257
01:30:36,149 --> 01:30:34,000
yeah we do man we didn't even tell you

2258
01:30:39,270 --> 01:30:36,159
about our john through central park

2259
01:30:40,550 --> 01:30:39,280
on new year's eve uh we will do that and

2260
01:30:43,189 --> 01:30:40,560
we didn't even mention

2261
01:30:45,350 --> 01:30:43,199
gene steinberg who is also a survivor

2262
01:30:47,110 --> 01:30:45,360
from from that early period and was on

2263
01:30:50,550 --> 01:30:47,120
that walk in the park

2264
01:30:52,070 --> 01:30:50,560
with our switchblades well you know to

2265
01:30:55,430 --> 01:30:52,080
remember the show they had over here at

2266
01:30:59,270 --> 01:30:56,790
remember the show that was over here at

2267
01:31:01,510 --> 01:30:59,280
the lowe's yes i do

2268
01:31:03,189 --> 01:31:01,520
whoever put that together i don't know

2269
01:31:04,390 --> 01:31:03,199
but i i think that i think a lot of

2270
01:31:05,750 --> 01:31:04,400
young people will be interested in

2271
01:31:07,350 --> 01:31:05,760
what's going on

2272
01:31:08,870 --> 01:31:07,360
you know i think a lot of young people i

2273
01:31:12,229 --> 01:31:08,880
think if you put it out there

2274
01:31:15,430 --> 01:31:12,239
i was on a another a psn radio uh show

2275
01:31:17,110 --> 01:31:15,440
uh sky watch uh about a month or so ago

2276
01:31:19,590 --> 01:31:17,120
we had a gentleman on there who

2277
01:31:21,270 --> 01:31:19,600
talked a big game about sponsoring a a

2278
01:31:22,870 --> 01:31:21,280
giant ufo conference so

2279
01:31:24,550 --> 01:31:22,880
we're waiting to hear back from him

2280
01:31:26,790 --> 01:31:24,560
anyway i know that

2281
01:31:27,830 --> 01:31:26,800
tim schwartz is here and he wants to

2282
01:31:30,390 --> 01:31:27,840
take over

2283
01:31:31,110 --> 01:31:30,400
the controls because he's about to come

2284
01:31:33,669 --> 01:31:31,120
on the air

2285
01:31:35,510 --> 01:31:33,679
in a few minutes with with his uh

2286
01:31:39,030 --> 01:31:35,520
program that he co-host with

2287
01:31:41,510 --> 01:31:39,040
michael bach and so we're going to

2288
01:31:42,470 --> 01:31:41,520
segue out of here and we'll see you

2289
01:31:44,470 --> 01:31:42,480
again

2290
01:31:45,830 --> 01:31:44,480
next week or we won't see you we'll hear

2291
01:31:48,070 --> 01:31:45,840
you or you'll hear us

2292
01:31:49,270 --> 01:31:48,080
somehow we'll get together on this and

2293
01:31:51,750 --> 01:31:49,280
um

2294
01:31:53,510 --> 01:31:51,760
we'll be doing this again hopefully on a

2295
01:31:57,189 --> 01:31:53,520
saturday night but remember it's all

2296
01:32:01,189 --> 01:31:57,199
archived on psn radio and a lot of it is

2297
01:32:03,430 --> 01:32:01,199
on youtube now uh peter bernard has done

2298
01:32:05,830 --> 01:32:03,440
a great job of editing all the stuff and

2299
01:32:09,590 --> 01:32:05,840
adding a few photos and graphics and

2300
01:32:11,590 --> 01:32:09,600
so if you go to mr ufo secret files

2301
01:32:13,189 --> 01:32:11,600
and type in the name of the uh the

2302
01:32:13,669 --> 01:32:13,199
individuals that are on that particular

2303
01:32:16,550 --> 01:32:13,679
uh

2304
01:32:18,550 --> 01:32:16,560
program you will you will get the the

2305
01:32:20,229 --> 01:32:18,560
audio with some little graphics up there

2306
01:32:23,750 --> 01:32:20,239
and you can listen to the show

2307
01:32:26,629 --> 01:32:23,760
and watch it like i do on my 40 inch

2308
01:32:28,790 --> 01:32:26,639
smart tv and again have a great night

2309
01:32:32,550 --> 01:32:28,800
and this is tim beckley signing off for